A IWC chronograph

I recently bought a iwc chronograph with Stauffer movement. In my opinion it is a very rare and interesting piece.
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What you think about?

A very interesting piece indeed. If you search the archives, I have one but in my instance the dial is signed (in Spanish) but the case is unsigned/unnumbered. If I recall, when I first posted it one expert from Germany indicated that only 2 or 3 others were known.

This is a rare bird. Kind of a marriage (or more correctly perhaps IWC's first outsourced movement), but a rare bird and worth having.

Very nice and extremly rare piece. It is also interesting that the register runs anticlockwise.

The anti-clockwise register is something that caught my attention instantly. Very interesting indeed.

Now, imagine that being applied to modern day chronograph calibre....

Hi
I also have one of these Chronographs in an IWC-silver case.
I am sure mine is not original.
I also have some others with a similar (+/- identical) movement in a non IWC-Case.
I think these sterling chronograph watches are not original IWC chronographs.
Most of them had just normal c.53 19" movements inside.
(there are very few really documented chronographs, mostly in gold cases)
Is there a readable number in it ?

Kind regards

Ralph

P.S.: These Watches are based on a patent of Nicolet....

Thank you Ralph, mine instead appears, in my opinion, completely original. The case is marked IWC and also presents the mark of the Gordon Bennett motor racing cup, present in some Stauffer chronographs used for the timing of the famous car race.
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Evidently (and it is not surprising) IWC commercialized under its brand name some Stauffer chronographs, at that time an absolute excellence in sports timekeeping and frequently verified at the Kew Observatory.

Stauffer certainly advertised their success as timers of the 1903 Gordon Bennet Cup.

From "La Classification Horlogere July 1903.

Details on how the race was timed can be found in "The 1903 Irish Gordon Bennett - The Race that saved motor sport" by Bob Montgomery.

Cheers from the cellar

According to the advert, the British Admiralty bought this chronometer.
Giovanni and Ralph. Can you please check the case back of your watches and check if there are are any military engravings?

Hi again,

When it is original, it is a nice find. Congratulation to find it.

As I am a very sceptic person, I am still having some doubts:
Why Stauffer should buy Nicolet watches through IWC, they where both in La Chaux-de-Fonds, so quite close to the seller directly.
Does both covers have inside the same number/markings and no IWC - Logo?
The case 232'474 was produced/sold around 1900, why it should wear the exhibition medals from 1906 / Milan?

Kind regards

Ralph

1) Stauffer and Nicolet are the same brand since when Jules Stauffer retired in the late 1880s and the whole company, London and La Chaux-de-Fonds, was taken over by Charles Nicolet. The Swiss patent 4821 is dated 1892.
2) Often the IWC trademark is missing in the case, this is the rule for IWC sold in the UK by Stauffer. Here anyway the case is signed IWC!
3) It is not at all certain that the case number matches the general rules, indeed we know that there are gaps in the archives and it is possible that series of case numbers were used in periods other than those expected.

Here two interesting links:
www.vintagewatchstraps.com/stauffer.html

web.archive.org/web/20050217011505/http://www.zeitwerke.com/pdf/1075565556-2.pdf

Finally, I descided to grab my IWC-signed Chrono out of the bank safe.

A long time ago, it was declared as "marriage". I am not shgure if we ever discussed that watch here in the forum or just under collectors.

I got the hint, the case number would indicate to an Lepine Silver 0.800 IWC 19 lig. sold around 1900. That time, and even when I saw this post, I was shure: "NOT AN IWC", was never in Schaffhausen.

Now when I compare the images I get some doubts: Two mostly identical watches, this is not the work of a "re-caser".
But as long this watches are not found in the selling books of Schaffhausen, there are doubts:
What is behind this pair (or even more) "IWC signed" watches with "wrong" case numbers. I am shure there are IWC watches with identical case numbers and IWC movement inside!

Here my pics:

Kind regards

Ralph

Hi Ralph and Giovanni,

Are the case numbers and the movement numbers the same?

The stamping of the Gordon Bennett cup trophy on the case might be promotion by Stauffer on being selected as official timers of the race rather than an indication the watches were used to time the race. The race was in 1903, and if the watches were used, why would they be recased (with post Milan 1906 IWC cases) three or more years later?

Cheers from the cellar

PS: My earlier numbered Stauffer/Nicolet Split Second Chronograph

Great Information,
So we have to find out, if we find under the dial a movement number identical to the case number.

When this is true it is a 100% Stauffer watch. May be IWC had a request for chronographs and ordered some from Staufer and signed them with IWC Marking but Stauffer case and movement number. Would be interesting to see if they are registered in the IWC books ...

Kind regards

Ralph

HMMM: Dismanteled the movement and have lift of the hands....
.... But I cant figure out how to lift of the dial without forcing it ...
(I already "opend" the 2 screws which seems to have no function close to the potential dial feet positions.)

There must be a clue somewhere, Greg do you have a hinf for me ?

Sorry Ralph, it was my watchmaker who removed the dial when I had the watch serviced not me.

Cheers from the cellar

I checked the dial more closely:

It seems, the prior "Watchmaker (I am not shure if I really should call it like this) hat a problem removing the dial (and destroyed it at the position of the dial feet).
To prevent this problem the dial feets where removed and the dial is fixed with a kind of a glue (not a clue) to the movement.

Now I have to find out how I can destry this glue fixation (solvent/heat)
Alcohol was not working....

Kind regards

Ralph

Hi Ralph and Gregg,
I am not able to tell you if my watch number movement is corresponding to that of the case.
But I'm not sure it's so important. Evidently IWC commercialized under its brand name some Stauffer chronographs and Stauffer/Nicolet commercialized under their brand name Peerless many IWC watches. It remains to be seen whether there is an explicit trace of these IWC watches in the archives.
It should however be added that Stauffer supplied some chronographs for the 1904 and 1905 Gordon Bennett Cup races too. I agree with Gregg that the stamping of the Gordon Bennett Cup trophy on the cases might be promotion by Stauffer on being selected as official timers of the race. All this is also consistent with the reference to exposure in Milan in 1906 in the case.
They are the same years!

Corresponding Case/Movement number is a sign, the numbers are not given by IWC,
So the case numbers are finally Stauffer/Nicolet numbers.
Does anyone has a idea / information on the exact Serial/number -> production date correspondence from Stauffer/Nicolet.
So it could be possible to find them in a IWC book. (When they are in the books)

thanks and regards

Ralph

P.S.: Finally I could lift off the dial. Case and movement number correspond...
231379

Dear Ralph,
we do not know yet if the numbers of case/movement are identical.
Werner Berghaus tells us that there is a gap of about 2000 numbers in the archives (case control books) and the number of case of one of this chronographs (we know five or six) fitted exactly into this gap!