A very nice Mark XI..

After searching for several years, I've finally acquired a lovely Mark XI in near mint condition. The case and dial look almost NOS. Unfortunately, the movement seems to have been treated harshly. It has some brassing and numerous scratches and dings. It just had a service by a very reputable watchmaker here in the US, and appears to be keeping good time.

I purchased this watch from a collector in the US who purchased it from a German collector. The German collector got it from the original owner. That is the only history I have.

I'd love to know a bit more about this watch and am hoping that someone on the forum has seen it before?

All comments and criticism greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Todd

Movement has plenty of scratches and dings. Plus evidence of sloppy work in the form of damaged screw holes.

A very nice looking example. Congratulations.

That sloppy work on the movement is the work of Chronometer Department of the Royal Observatory at Herstmonceux. Treasure it.

OK, thanks. I googled and read about the observatory.

Was sloppy work the norm for them?

Someone mentioned to me that this watch looked like it may have been restored at Schaffhausen. I see no indications of restoration anywhere on this piece. Do you?

thanks,
todd

Todd,
First time I've ever seen a hang-tag like that with a UK issued Mark 11.
Also, are you sure that the case hasn't been 'refreshed' at Schaffhausen?
Best,
Ian

It is certainly sporting a recent service crystal...
Ian

Hi Ian,

I am not sure that the case hasn't been refreshed, but my feeling after studying it in the flesh is that it has not been. I took the time to look at it with a loupe last night and have never seen such sharp lines on a restoration.

The crystal was replaced a few years ago and was noted to be unoriginal in the COA.

cheers,
Todd

Todd,

Sharp lines are exactly what you will get with a careful factory machined refinish.

These are 60 year old watches. Had this been anything other than truly new-old-stock (i.e. unused, never 'issued' - in which case it wouldn't have been serviced), it would show some degree of scuffing and scratching to the case.

It's a nice watch, but this is not a piece which I would pay a premium for.

Regards,
Ian

Ian,

The seller represented it as "close to NOS" in that it appears as if it's never been used. This is what the German collector who he purchased it from told him. I know the seller and am inclined to agree with him. As far as the scrapes and dings on the movement...who knows. It may have been serviced in the 70's because the movement was dry. At this point I just don't know the story. Are either of us sure that it was not issued to someone in the service who decided to put it away for safe keeping?

I do know that I've never seen a nicer one and would pay the premium again for a similar watch. But that's just me.

best,
Todd

The watch case has been refinished and the dial replaced, but to me the movement is a bit of a mystery. A case in almost pristine condition and movement showing wear is a bit unconcongruous. And the relatively contemporary strap is inconsistent with a case almost never used.

I suspect that the refinishing was done perhaps 10+ years ago (especially given the very slight spreading of the luminous compound on the markers), and someone slightly inept worked on the movement afterwards --not Herstmonceux, but more recently. Also, the spotting on the amagnetic plate is inconsistent with good treatment and a well-sealed case (or one never used). The hang-tag I don't believe makes sense for a military issue item but, hey, there's always a first!

Still, it's a very nice watch.

yes, the dial is a tritium conversion so it would have been replaced at some point. the strap was thrown on by me last night.

the case refinished? can you tell me how you can state this with certainty?

the mystery for me, as you say, is the incongruity between case and movement.

thanks

Todd,

I don't think there's any mystery. I believe the case of your watch will originally have shown some light age related wear and scratches (commensurate with the movement condition), but has been carefully refinished to look like new.

The watch is not NOS. The watch movement has been serviced at least once, probably more. As Michael rightly points out, it has a later replacement (early 1960s) tritium dial.

I don't believe the hang tag is original. Even if these watches were originally supplied to the UK forces with such tags (which I doubt - this ID not an IWC serial number), this would almost certainly not have remained with an issued and used watch, through at least one service, and until the early 1960s when the dials were changed...

Just my opinion of course, I may be completely wrong.

Best,
Ian

Thanks Ian,
All points well taken.

cheers,
todd

Hm, I know this watch from another forum, at march 2015.

Only the strap was different :-)

Hebe,

can you please email me with that info? it would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently trying to reach the last owner (the guy my seller bought it from) of this watch, a guy from Germany who has posted on this forum in the past.

best
todd

Sure, this is the link to that post on the forum:

www.watchlounge.com/wbb3/wl/marken-lounges/iwc/219564-welche-iwc-vintage-uhr-habt-ihr-in-der-sammlung/index2.html

Hope it works and helps.

Regards

HEBE

Thanks!

[QUOTE="tmw57"]After searching for several years, I've finally acquired a lovely Mark XI in near mint condition. The case and dial look almost NOS.
I purchased this watch from a collector in the US who purchased it from a German collector. The German collector got it from the original owner.

The vintage watch market, especially the military market, is full of these stories, concocted to increase the value of a watch at the eyes of the collector. That hangtag on a RAF Mark 11 is particularly ludicrous.
There may be still out there NOS, never issued, vintage military watches, but they will be as rare as hen's teeth, but the movement would have been also NOS. Any shiny military watch is likely to have been polished, and an immaculate dial a replacement or a repaint. These watches were ordnance, tools to accomplish a difficult job, frequently in extreme circumstances, and wear and tear is to be expected, even desired.
I hope you did not pay extra for features that only devalue the watch.

This is the only truly unissued and unused 6B/346 Mark 11 which I am aware of (photos - credit Ilja Probst). The strap is new, and the boxes are just for the photo background. Even this unissued piece shows some age to the lume, and minor storage / handling marks to the case, as would be expected on a watch of this age.