Michael - if you know where to find.....
a good clean 812 for $8000 you should share that information - that sounds like a bargain in the UK.
The debate about the value of watches (new as well as vintage) generally ends with the conclusion that they are worth whatever someone is prepared to pay - arguably, the intrinsic value of most watches is only a few dollars (a few more if made from a precious metal).
agree!
Modigliani?
No argument with Amadeo either. nt
as a free market economist, I agree generally but
...I also think that even if everything by definition is priced to market (that is, what willing butyers would pay willing sellers) there still can be relative market abnomalies. Specifically, I think IWC vintage pricing is out of whack due to a number of external factors. When 18k XXL (38mm, fancy dial) Vacherons sell for much less than steel IWC 866s, that's only because a small group knows more about vintage IWCs. And that's been due to marketing by IWC.
Not all current pricing of all commodities is correct, and that is the logical extension of your theory. I submit most vintage IWCs are overpriced today --compared to Vacheron on the high end,Jaeger LeCoultre on the middle, and Baume & Mercier at the low end.
Sorry to be a "bah humbug" guy,
Michael
Well said, Michael...
I don't find your remarks cynical at all. Fact is, things are over priced.
--
Isobars.
we understand each other :)
nice things are more expensive.. and I
see we have a pricing discussion on the forum:)
And then, there is Pablo.
Divers, 1956. Madura ceramic. One of 500. Definitely no argument here.
Since this is definitely off topic, it will be my last posting on this subject, lest we get into trouble. :)
The intrinsic value...
of this Picasso ceramic is just a few cents - basically it is only overcooked dirt and paint.
[](s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/costadaguia/?action=view¤t=Picasso_Divers5001956.jpg)
No one suggests, however, that its intrinsic value has any relation to its artistic and monetary worth.
I appreciate the relative exclusivity...
of IWC which is (IMHO) partly as a result of low-key (or very focussed) marketing, when compared to some other brands, and any adverts I have seen were certainly not promoting vintage models ,)
Exactly the same discussion occurs regularly on the topic of other vintage brands (such as Rolex which tend to fetch far higher prices that the average IWC), so while we may not all appreciate the high price to be paid for exclusivity / rarity, it seems that the free market achieves just that.
Hopefully the pricing of vintage IWCs ....
is not like tulip mania :)
Do you think there are simmilarities?
or, as the smile indicates, you are just throwing more fuel to the fire?
I think of it as a warning
There is always the risk goods are overpriced. As MF pointed out, there are similar watches trading for much less. So there could be a risk. I hope potential buyers are aware of this risk.
And yes. A little fuel on the fire is not bad. I think its a good (and early) example of what could happen. This wil only work for you if you sell a the right moment at the top of the bubble. But no one knows when we are at the top of the bubble.
Incredible...
Who would have thought that I would learn about a piece of history from my country on a IWC forum talking about vintage Aquatimer models! It's just amazing!
Kind regards,
Clemens
Martijn, fully agree with you, ...
I am absolutely not a fortunate (I mean financially) collector.
But when I buy a watch, it is with all passion, such as the latest VC Da Vinci, and prior to that one a Small Portugieser YG for my wife and I drove to Hamburg to collect the "special" 5441 Steel Jubilee, you know: equipped with another dial and hands.
I see buying these not as an investment but more as (1) fun and enjoying them, and (2) not a real cost, as I believe I would be able to sell them at no financial or - let's say - limited loss.
And that is what I would call an intelligent investment. Though not an investment in the real sense of the word.
Ciao, Rob.
With Mondriaan, you made a very ...
wrong assessment.
One cannot assess what he did to initiate modern culture, design and architecture in the "new world" and as part of other classics in what was assessed modern culture.
OK, we deviate, but believe me that I can name you 100 cultural trends which's roots can be derived from Mondriaan's and contemporary artists.
We may not underestimate what we see as simplicity these days, as it still is genious by-the-way, and was an undescribable break-through at those times.
It is amazing how artistical quality continues - in cyclic periods - to be appreciated and depreciated and vice-versa.
Weird phenomen that we simply cannot fix ideas, such as: we believe this is an absolute beauty, now and forever.
This also applies to watches (...trying to bring the subject back...) and - apart of watch size - this is also a trend, surely commercially defined, but still our own eyes and mind are also subject to trends.
Thanks for reading,
Ciao, Rob.
I really like the new one...
agree!!
i really love the new one!!
