Big Pilot's Watch - 75 years after...

The picture showing the 2016-version of the Big Pilot watch with a "complete" 9 made me want to wear my beloved IWC 5004 with classic design of the Big Pilot's watch again

I wonder though why IWC does not want go back to the real, original design of the pilot's watch that is becoming 75 years old next year. To me, only that particular design is the one that reflects the history correctly and makes the watch something special. All other variants were fashion-inducted.

Is it really about fashion, or is it about the point that the watches of 1941 were built for the "wrong side", that makes IWC refraining from using it again? What do you think?

I think you meant your IWC 5002. The 5004 and 5009 have no 9, but the 5002 does.

Mine is a 5004 with classic design of the 5002.

So it's a transition model.

very much agree with you that for 75 years, a jubilee model would be best to resemble the original B-Uhr....of course, with a touch of contemporary design...as was done with the Portuguese this year....

at the same time, like Michael, I wonder about the photo....this looks a typical 5002....

greetings,
yitzhak

I'm not sure how you did that without a dial transplant of sorts, but so be it.

Regardless, I prefer the classic look of the 5002 much more. But also to me it, and in a sense all modern pilot watches, are not perfect tool replicas. A date is not needed nor classic. An 8-day power reserve is likewise not needed not classic. It's not a real navigator's instrument and its flying days are limited to passenger seats on commercial planes.

There's nothing wrong with those "impurities" to me, but we should consider these watches for what they are. We buy them emotionally and not as real tools let alone historical replicas.

It's a Special Edition 1 of 1 - but never mind.

I agree that the modern watches are not replicas, but I think if you want to show the heritage, you should stay as much as possible to the original. The same applies also to the Portuguese, where the numbers of the dial have not changed that dramatically.

I wonder about that "heritage" thing. How close does a watch have to be to a watch of 75 years ago to show heritage? And who decides on which aspects such a watch must be judged?

To start with, 75 years ago these pilot's watches were tool watches, not too expensive: why make an expensive watch that might be lost in battle in a few days or weeks? Of course they had to be good enough for their tasks, but no need to overshoot on quality either. Does a luxurious watch of high quality show enough heritage?

The materials used 75 years ago were different than used now. The steel of the cases was different, the crystal was, the straps or bracelets too. Does a modern watch using different, better materials show enough heritage?

The movements nowadays are constructed in quite a different way, using computers while designing and manufacturing. Do watches with these movements show enough heritage?

The functions of the watches of 75 years ago were different, simpler: only time. No date, no power reserve indicator. Does a watch with additional functions not needed during battle or flight show enough heritage?

The original Beobachtungsuhr was much bigger than the current "Big" Pilot. Does therefore the Big Pilot show enough heritage?

Those mentioning heritage seem to be very picky on the aspects that should count when deciding a watch shows enough heritage. This is connected with a phrase like "if a company wants to show heritage", suggesting that such an objective is to be pursued, and is pursued insufficiently. To me it is not clear that IWC wants to show heritage, and certainly not in a way inferred by those writing about heritage. To me IWC wants to produce high quality good looking watches that belong to the family "Pilot's watches". These watches are inspired by the past, heritage here probably means those new watches look a bit like those old watches, nothing more. These new watches in fact have hardly any connection to the past except some details about looks.

Kind regards,
Paul

Please, tell us more about this one-of-one special edition that you were so lucky to have IWC make for you.

Regards,
Adam

Hi Adam

It was not my intention to elaborate on this version of mine, but sometimes it is simply an advantage to be close to Schaffhausen.

Regards
Dave

Be that as it may, it's still pretty freaking cool and I'd love to know more about how this piece came to be, as would others, I'm sure.

Would you consider starting a new thread?

Regards,
Adam

+1 I would be fascinated to know more?

It is a 5004 with the dial of a 5002. If you know a watchmaker or somebody close to IWC who is able to get such a new dial, you can do it. The case and movement are compatible.

On the original questions:
I am with Michael: these watches are a modern interpretation of an original (tool) model of the past, no more and no less. They may have tool character: big dial, reliable high precision movement, soft iron inner cage. The latter you wouldn't need in a jet's passenger seat and not even wearing it in the cockpit because of the lack of magnetic fields there. Probably if you work on your loudspeakers to disassemble them you could need it.

I am with Paul: who should judge how much resemblance of the past is enough? Everybody would judge differently.

I am with Regulateur: I prefer the orignal 5002 dial over the 5004 or 5009 dials. But that's just personal taste and nothing else. I was thinking about the redial variant too if I couldn't get a 5002. But you see them for sale for quite reasonable prices quite a bit. Now I ended up with a 5009 BP Petit Prince and have solved this issue in that manner.

The answer to the question why the 5002 look was discontinued seems quite easy:
Sales figures. They were not as high as they should or could have been. And somebody making decisions at IWC decided to have a new look. And the new look was transferred over the whole line of Pilot's watches from the Marks over the different chronos up to the Big Pilots. This step seems to be quite comprehensible to me although I personally would have preferred the BP with the original dial (or to offer a choice which one you want).

Personally I think everybody demanding for the old style dial today should have bought one when they were for sale back then. Sometimes you have to get the things you want as long as there's supply.

Puh, that one ended up much longer as I intended to. ;-)

Greetings,

It looks like they were able to replace the date wheel as well. I guess the only way to differentiate between this watch and a transitional 5002 is the serial number range.

Regards, George

Hello George

It is the dial, the date wheel and the hands that need to be changed. They did not want to change the case back, although I asked - it looks different, but the issue is that there is a serial number on it...

Hello,

Many thanks for confirming about what was changed-I didn't know the hands were different too. I also prefer the classic looks of the 5002. I must compliment you on your connections! :-)

Regards, George

Hello George

Thank you. I actually think about selling this piece and getting an original 5002 for it. Although the watch is known for the issues it had, it is one latest classics in IWC history.