Ceramic watch parts

Dear Forumners,

On the TZ forum someone posted that during a visit at an IWC Boutique and checking out a ref 5001 Portuguese he noticed what appeared to be plastic parts within the movement.

When he pointed this out to the sales person he was told that's it now common to use some plastic parts in modern movements. He writes that while he liked the watch the use of plastic parts was a huge turn-off.

Although I responded on that forum I think it's important to make a similar point here that the part he saw is NOT plastic but "CERAMIC" automatic winding clicks. As part of the pawl lever mounted assembly in combination with the specially hardened auto device wheel, the "ceramic" clicks reduces the abrasion of the automatic winding mechanism.

While ceramics have been used for a long time by IWC i.e. ref. 3705 case, producing "movement parts" from this material is relatively new.

I believe one reason the salesperson was unaware of this development is that IWC has perfected their movements over the years with little fanfare and technical info was reserved for their watchmakers.

However, in order to properly educate misinformed consumers, I find this forum a good platform to share the latest technical improvements and to show the company doesn't rest on its laurels.

Regards,
Jack Freedman

Jack,
Thanks for the information.

Thank you Jack for providing this kind of valuable information. I can certainly see if someone was under the impression that plastic parts were being utilized and a sales associate was supporting that impression, one could easily come to the conclusion that IWC is "cutting corners" to reduce production costs.

As you have brought forth, through education this example demonstrates how IWC actually pursues building only state-of-the-art watches and continues seeking out technological advances that extend/improve life expectancy translating to reduced end user servicing and it's associated costs.

Always look forward to your most interesting contributions Jack. Thanks again.

Andy

Thanks for the information Jack. Is it possible to post a picture of the 5001 and show the specific part you mention. Just curious were to look for it and apparently it can be seen throught the back as it can disturbe customers.

regards
Norbert

Thanks Jack. I have been somewhat underwelmed of late by the lack of sales staff detailed knowledged in some ADs and airport boutiques.

It is quite so that many shop staff in high end watch shops are oblivious to the product being sold.I have experienced the frustrations of such visits on my watch buying spree.This could be that AD dealers may be purveyors of many brands.This however is no excuse for the management of retail outlets not to have informed and educated staff.
Regards.
Kenneth.

Thanks Jack. Great to see ceramic parts also get used in the more mainstream watches now.

Kind regards,

Clemens

thanks jack, good to know. regards, thang

Thank you for your explanation, a picture of the part would be quite enlightening.

This raises the question how far you can go in improving the characteristics of a watch. Let's forego the remark that to improve the accuracy of a watch you must use quartz movements, but this remark shows that we are talking a traditional product, a mechanical movement, so there are preconditions to observe.

If the accuracy or the longevity of a movement can be improved by replacing a beautiful metal part by a not so beautiful, cheap, plastic part, would that be acceptable? I guess not. And if that not so beautiful part is expensive, like maybe ceramic or silicium? That may depend of the kind of watch company. IWC is known as a technical company, so on an Ingenieur watch such a ceramic part could be the way to go. On an elegant Portuguese? Would Patek Philippe or Vacheron Constantin want such a part in their beautiful chronographs? I wonder, I guess the answer could easily be no.

Maybe a typical short answer could be: as long as that part is expensive, state-of-the-art, then it could be acceptable, if that part, alas, is cheap, then, no, it is not acceptable. It almost sounds like a joke.

Kind regards,
Paul

Very informative thanks Jack

Thanks Jack. I appreciate your sharing the detailed and correct technical information with us.

Here you have a picture. I think this visual illustration I pieced together and annotated from a couple of my files will help explain why an uninformed individual could think that the part is plastic when in fact it's made from ceramic.

As you can also see the ref. 5001 has an exhibitionist back with a flat sapphire crystal from which anyone can see the beauty of the movement and its parts.

Regards,
Jack Freedman

Thanks for the info, Jack.

I was told the use of plastic (IWC or not) in watches' movements was actually a good thing. Plastic, unlike metal, does not need to be lubricated as often (ie, less frequent services are required).

Also, I believe the use of ceramic parts in movement is not entirely new to IWC either. I recall the (unfortunately, never released) Portofino Dual-time actually uses a movement with ceramic "bearings" instead of jewels. Too bad we never get to see it becomes publicly available.

Thanks for sharing This information, Jack. Furthermore it is great to see your effort in clarifying this important issue.

Jack - its really good that you defended this case on that other forum and outlined some specific technical info. Outstanding. I am a bit surprised that a sales consultant did not know this, as well as many forum members here. This has been discussed here before, and this photo has appeared with a detailed description of IWC's innovative use of ceramic movement parts.

That photo above and the details have been in the catalog for several years. Each sales associate on the floor of each boutique should know the catalog and it's contents from front-to-back which only begin to scratch the surface of IWC...

Our own Mark L brought is up as late as last year in a great post...
Mark L's Post from last Year..

Quite interesting Jack...I do remember that this issue has been discussed already on the forum.
May I ask in which models apart of 5001 this IWC uses these ceramic parts??
In the past, plastic parts have been also mentioned concerning 7750-based models such as 3714...could you comment on this ?
Thanks and kind regards,
Yitzhak

Thank you so much for pointing this out. I don't recall this earlier thread though as a regular reader of the forum I must have seen it.

Best regards,
Jack

Nice to have the refresher course Jack. My memory was a bit faded on this improvement / change.