• Connoisseur
    21 Aug 2008, 4:45 p.m.

    Greetings,

    Recently someone on another watch discussion site reported on discussions he had with two IWC watchmakers. In essence they told him "chronos are meant to be used; there's nothing wrong with running a chono all the time. No harm will arise." He reported his informal interviews as if they were "official" pronouncements from IWC, which of course they are not. People thanked this person for getting a final pronouncement on this subject.

    I don't buy it. Here's what I wrote in reply:
    [i]
    I respectfully disagree, at least in part

    With respect, I don't care if a person is a watchmaker or if that person gets a paycheck from IWC (as do I). In fact, the person who replied to you really cannot speak officially for IWC. Perhaps you can ask to contact me to discuss the issues; I will separately raise the matter with IWC executives.

    That said, I will discuss briefly the issues inolved. First, a chronograph is actually very simple in concept: it is basically an additional seconds hand, with (a) the addition of a mechanical start/stop mechanism and (b) a series of totalizers. Running a seconds hand does not require a lot of power, for sure, and in that sense there is little effect on the watch. In that sense, what you were told is true.

    However, the use of the chronograph does reduce the movement's amplitude somewhat. It varies from watch to watch, but I'd guess the reduction is such that a typical watch, with a chrono running all day, will run about 20/seconds a day slower. That doesn't bother most people, and isn't considered serious, but there IS an effect on "accuracy" and that does bother some people.

    Next, there are various ways that some chronos are designed to avoid loss of amplitude on running. The "in' way today is to use a vertical clutch design (and without going into details you can Google to learn about that). A slightly different approach was used also for the new Da Vinci chrono, again to improve performance when the chrono is running by eliminating ampliutude variances. However, these approaches are not used in the Valjoux based chronos that IWC uses, which is most models. It's again not serious, but movement designers do recognize that there is an issue and there are designs to deal with that.

    Next is the issue of wear. Some people consider additional running of functions as nominal, while others believe that all running increases wear and decreases service time. You had one watchmaker who said to have the watch serviced every two years --absurb advice, contrary to IWC's own printed recommendations and very costly. Perhaps it doesn't matter to him. But I will tell you that Patek Philippe in its booklets (or at least some Ive read --I can't check all) accompanying its chronos state that they do NOT recommend running a chronograph constantly. I'm not sure what an IWC watchmakers knows that Patek does not, or vice versa. But the IWC chrono design is no better in this respect than Patek's, and I think it shows that there is a legitimate disagreement among professionals.

    So, if you don't mind your watch being more "off" in timekeeping, and if you don't mind the possibility of a somewhat shorter service interval, continuously running the chrono really isn't an issue. No great harm will arise. But with respect I don't care who you talked to at IWC --that doesn't change the facts.

    Regards,
    Michael Friedberg
    (this also isn't an official position by IWC)

    Your thoughts here are welcome.

    Regards,
    Michael

  • Master
    22 Aug 2008, 5:20 a.m.

    Thanks for the summary, official or not. nt

  • Master
    21 Aug 2008, 8:55 p.m.

    thanks michael

    i run mine all the time just because i love all the hands going at once.
    i have noticed it can run up to 1 minute out per day, but hey, it's a hand made, automatic watch.
    if we all wanted 100% accurate watches we would wear quartzes.
    let them run!

  • Master
    22 Aug 2008, 12:35 a.m.

    Re: Debate about running a chrono all the time...

    I'd like to offer some comments based on experience working daily at the bench on two types of chronograph calibers.

    1. Valjoux 7750 = IWC C79xxx
    2. Lemania 5100

    The first movement is one modified and extensively used by IWC and the second one was used in the old Porsche Design by Orfina timepieces.

    I haven't done any fact finding tests to obtain results of accuracy comparing with and without use of the chrono running but I can say without hesitation that the amplitude drops at least 20 degrees with the use of the chronograph engaged.

    In my shop when we perform regular quality control checks we run the chronograph to ensure that the minute and hour counters are registering properly and at the same time check the timekeeping. Based on these 48-72 hours or so of quality control checks I haven't noticed any 'major' deviations in accuracy.

    Problems can, however, arise from long term use of the chrono because there is an added load of stress to the engaged parts which can wear out sooner than through occasional use. Thus the need of service intervals might be shortened if one uses the chrongraph functions every day. BTW, the same applies to the IWC calibre C631 mecaquartz movement which when the chrono functions are constantly used the battery will expire much sooner.

    My remarks are not made in any official capacity but only from practical bench observance.

    Regards,
    Jack Freedman

  • Master
    22 Aug 2008, 8:45 a.m.

    My thoughts;

    Hi Michael,
    Thanks for your post on this subject. Just my 2 cents:

    • I think I have to compare these theories to my Classic Alfa: it's not good to leave it a year in the garage without driving it: standing still is not good for the engine: I think it's good to wear a watch and operate the chrono now and then
    • I think driving about 100k miles per year in the same classic Alfa brings me a engine revision sooner

    So I think it's not all black and white,... and that's I think the same MF wrote:
    - operate the chrono... but there's no use of letting it run all day.

    I read on the other hand that the split second is something different; it's not to keep the 2 second hands apart from each other for a long while. It will damage the spring that operate's the split second hand.

    I think the last warning is one that is 100% valid; though letting the chrono run 24 7 is maybe not so good.

    For me; having chrono's/ split second and rattrapante movements; they are not really necessary in my daily life; so the function is; to play with them once in a while....

    The real function come's when I prepare diner.

    Greetings, Martijn

  • Master
    21 Aug 2008, 8:25 p.m.

    I never run the chrono functions...

    unless I need to or want to do so. I have no doubt that the excess wear on the movement could become a problem. But for most this would just speed up the need for service. Not a major problem.

    In one respect, this discussion is similar to the debate about watch winders. If you put an automatic watch on a winder, you certainly trade off the convenience of not resetting the watch for the possibility of increased wear over time.

    It seems logical that any mechanical device will be subject to wear directly proportional to the degree of use. So, if you enjoy watching all the hands do their thing, let them run all the time. But don't be surprised if you need an earlier service.

  • Connoisseur
    22 Aug 2008, 7:30 a.m.

    A Spitfire experience

    Hi Michael and thank you for this debate !

    I own a Spitfire chrono (3706) that I bought in november 2005 and that I've been wearing on a daily basis since then. It typically runs at +1 sec/week, which is quite accurate, when I barely use the chrono for cooking or other purposes. However, when I'm on a different time zone for less than 10 days, I use to let the chrono running, as a second time zone watch. I observed that the accuracy was then not so good, with a typically +5 sec/day.

    Just my 2 cents,
    Jean

  • Connoisseur
    22 Aug 2008, 4:35 a.m.

    I am learning of You Mickael ...

    thank you for an interesting post as always .

  • Master
    21 Aug 2008, 3:05 p.m.

    Re: Debate about running a chrono all the time...

    With respect for all opinions from collectors and others : it is the opinion of the watch maker daily at the bench, that counts for me.
    Thanks Jack,
    Adrian.

  • Master
    22 Aug 2008, 2 p.m.

    Well said, Michael....

    Another reason to prefer 24 h dials.

    Best from Isobars.

  • Apprentice
    23 Aug 2008, 4:50 p.m.

    Sharp as always MF. NT

    I read somewhere, that the 7750-based chronos prematurely wear & tear if chrono is on all the time (because the construction of the 7750 chrono parts doesn't allow constant running - some tiny gears seem to be involved here - I am not a watchmaker).

    On the other hand I also read, that different constructions (column wheel etc.) allow constant running (e. g. Daytona, Speedmaster etc.)...

    But that's what I heard from others (who might know or not)...

  • Connoisseur
    24 Aug 2008, 4:20 a.m.

    I don't think that's correct....

    Hi Felix,

    The column wheel is used for the start/stop functions and would have nothing to do with constant running of the chrono. The Lemania-based Patek chrono is a column wheel design of very high quality, and they do not recommend constant running.

    I think what you heard is a urban myth/Internet rumor sort of thing that some people use to bash the 7750 base. Just to avoid that spreading, I'm posting this reply.

    On the other hand, the newer (non-Zenith based) Rolex chrono movement does use a vertical clutch construction which doesn't decrease amplitude when the chrono is running and therefore improves "accuracy" slightly if there is lengthy running. Most Speedmasters don't have that design, but it I recall a few newer models use the Piguet-Blancpain base movements that also have a vertical clutch.

    Regards,
    Michael

  • Master
    27 Aug 2008, 10:35 a.m.

    after your earlier teaching

    in the forum I decided to minimise the free running of the chrono - but like Stephen I do love to see the chrono running.....the watch come alive and I love to see it working at full capacitiy.....so often I time myself between not running and running the chrono just for added pleasure.

    Andrew