Dial or Movement ?

For what it's worth, I agree with Alan (except there are several Rolex models I really do like the style of). A watch must, of course, fulfill its primary function of accurately reporting the time. But many watches will do that well, some with in-house movements and some with outsourced movements.

So the "first cut" for me when it comes to choose from among watches is style or design -- a watch that I find attractive. It so happens that I particularly like the style of IWC watches (and a few other makes).

Of course, I'll have no interest in a watch which is truly mechanically unsound. Such a watch would serve no purpose, except decoration -- and that is, to me, insufficient.

But there is nothing unsound about the ETA/Valjoux movements as used by IWC. And while I find a certain satisfaction and pride of ownership associated with a good in-house movement, that's certainly not determinative.

Alan, for me it is clearly the dial. I don't really care which movement is in the watch if I don't like the dial. Don't get me wrong, I expect the watch to perform as described but then I have to like the dial and then the case and finishing.

As usual my friend, you are evoking a big response with the questions you present and people are sharing their selection process.
Regards,
Kevin

Dear Alan:

I agree with you completely. And Vahalis makes a good point that even the IWC Grande Complication has an outsourced movement. Further, it is my understanding that Patek Phillipe has, down the years, used other makers' movements for certain of its watches. So the issue of in-house movement or not is of no consequence to me.

Another of your interesting posts--keep 'em coming!

Cheers!

Donald

Believe it or not, I am patient. I bought one watch a year for the last few years. All but one were IWC watches. If the total collection of IWC amounts to about 100 watches, and the amount of new watches in a year is between 10 and 20, then there is always a watch that you may like so much that you might buy it.

Like, this year, there are several beautiful new Pilot's watches. Some attract within a second, some take a day or two. Let me mention the chrono's. They all look great, I could do with any of them without any problem at all. But in the end it is the total package. I indeed, like most of you, start with the looks, the appearance. Then, in come the details, like an in-house movement. If one of those watches has the 89365, that is a bonus. If there is an anti-magnetic cage, the same. A bracelet with micro adjustment, super. And suddenly I realise that the Spitfire Chrono, that I already liked, comes into the realm of the watches that I not only like, but that I might really like to have. I realise suddenly that this is the first 8936X watch that I really like, after about 4 or 5 years: I said I was patient, certainly if the criterion is a certain movement.

I guess, having quite some watches now, that I only buy a new watch if it meets about all the criteria that I can think of. That means that I almost certainly would not buy a beautiful watch without an in-house movement anymore. I considered the Portofino Chrono with a white dial and mesh bracelet last year. In the end the movement stopped me doing it, I bought the handwound 8 days instead, that met all the criteria and stung me like a bee once I saw it at my wrist. Will that happen with the Spitfire Chrono too?

Kind regards,
Paul

As an owner of a 3799 Top Gun Double Chrono, I have spent that sum of money on a watch with such a movement, so cant really argue with Alan's comments.

That said, I do prefer an in house movement, it does give you a slightly warmer and fuzzier feel than a third party movement. If I were presented with an externally identical watch with the choice of in house and third party movement and the price was not significantly different, then I would choose the in-house, but otherwise it is the watch's other characteristics that will get me over the line.

I currently have a 50 / 50 split on the collection - 2 in house (5001 and MK XI) and 2 "third party" - 3799 and 3568) and at the end of the day, I am happy with the lot of them :)

Cheers,

Ben

For me... i'd love to own an in-house movement someday! I currently own the Spitfire Mark XVI and the new Portofino Chronograph, both not inhouse movements but beautiful timepieces. Next on my list is the Portugieser 7 days, which is an inhouse movement... So im keen on seeing the difference!

Greetings,

Desmin

The aesthetic of the watch is what first 'grabs' me because I have to find it appealing to wear. But I must say that my taste has slightly evolved over the past three years based on what I've learned here, and the direct influence of some forum collectors whose opinions I've come to respect. Value is important to me also...I agree with Argiris in that I would decline to pay certain price points for outsourced movements that are priced similarly to IWC's in-house movements. And before I get too smug in my assessment...all this would go right out the window if I saw an IWC I really, really liked!!!

Further to my previous comments, I just recalled a commend the salesman made when I was last in my AD picking up my new Aquatimer 2000 (which is not in house and I have no problem with it).

We were talking about the fact that the AT did not have an in house movement and he pointed to the Harry Winston stand next to the IWC stand and said "You know what, you dont really need to worry about it, that Harry Winston there is xxxx price (more than 10 times the price of the AT I was buying) and it uses an ETA movement!"

We just need to look at the original DaVinci Perpetual Calendar - a watch that is growing on me more and more and it was a ground breaker, first Perpetual Calendar movement with 4 digit day read out etc etc etc, take a look at the Grand Complication's, the Rattrapante models and more and they are all sensational watches that most of us would love to have in their collection, yet none of them have an "in-house" movement, but they are very "IWC".

Cheers,

Ben

I will almost agree with Alan. The dial must catch my eye. Every watch I own I love the dial.

But, that being said, I have turned down the purchase of a watch because it has, to my eye, a less than beautiful case. So I guess in the end it has to be the whole package.

What a treat to open the case of an vintage IWC and see a beautifully finished in house movement!

Perhaps there should not really be a comparison, as harmony between it all makes for a perfect selection. I also think it depends on the collector. Some take joy in researching the finer mechanics while some spend more time marveling at the artistic beauty of a dial.

And what about sound? I believe a watch has the ability to 'make music' and I'm not just referring to a minute repeater.

Certainly when I choose a watch, I listen when I wind and I love to spend a moment just listening to the watch sing. I think that is the icing on the cake.