ETA movements are anywhere...

There is no right or wrong but rather beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. What fits right for me does not necessary apply to others.

My view is that you pay for what you get. 5k euro or less you probably have to settle for ETA or modified ETA movement watch. That is the reality in the industry and across all watch brands. It really boils down to what you like and how big the hole you want go burn in your pocket. I started with owning ETA movement like the IWC pilot Chrono and other brands like Omega, Tag and slowly move to modified ETA based watch like UN, etc and as I understand appreciate more about watches and for long term values, I only buy in-house movement watches now like the JLC, Panaerai and of course IWC (latest collection is the PPC).

If I won't say I am buying a watch but rather a timepiece. To me a watch is a device meant to keep time accurately and reliably and thus if you need a watch go buy a guartz. For a timepiece is is an art and brings along with it it's unique history and tradition which cannot be replicated coupled with the technology that takes years to develop. This forms the character of the timepiece and this is what I look for when buying one.

So for me the I look at first the complication which must be in-house movement, the design of the timepiece and finally if I can afford it and if not start to plan to save for it or rather not buy anything. In house movement is what defines the life of the timepiece and that of its creator. In house movement brings along good resale investment value as well even more if it is limited edition.

The above are just my person views and thoughts.

Thanks and regards

Hm, maybe you should take a factory tour and look how they treat and modify the ETA-movements.
After that modifications they are no common ETA's anymore :=)

Hello Everybody
i was going through some old writings of mine when I stumbled on this post which I still find very interesting.

I read through the first reply from Michael to my original post where he mentioned Patek and its use of Lemania (3rd party) chronograph movement.
I just think that Patek Lemania-based chrono are top class. The Patek 5070 is an icon. The Lemania manual wind chrono, with its column wheel, it's 18,000 v/h speed, is just a marvel. It got everything. Tradition and that kind of special allure. I wouldn't put it in the same league or any close to a Valjoux 7750. Frankly speaking, I would be really happy to have a vintage ebache in my Portuguese Chrono instead of a Valjoux 7750. But here we go again with the "money" issue...

Anyway, just a thought, because i believe that the use of ebache from Patek is a bit of a different category compared to IWC. It is, I guess, a comparing apple and orange to compare IWC use of ETA movement with Patek approach to Lemania's movement, isn't it? Many on the WEB bring up this comparison. I think it is not just a matter of in-house or not-in-house. I would go forward and say that also the quality of the movement matters. A Venus rattrapante might be not in house, but a watch with that beast inside would be top-top class. So probably with the ETA/SELLITA stuff, it's just a matter of a cheap solution which is a bit of a peaty.

BTW, IWC Portuguese chrono is a marvel, best looking chrono out there IMHO, and what IWC does to the Valjoux is great. Just still plenty of steps down compared to a Patek Lemania...

Cheers
Matteo

I actually like this discussion every time it gets started, there are always new flavors to it…

Personally I’m a vintage fan. One reason is probably that I’m a nostalgic guy but another one definitely the fact that then back in time, prior to the quartz crisis, the variation of movements was wide even though ETA already had a position.

I think it’s a huge ideological difference between a “tuned” ETA2892 and a movement designed and specified in-house. The fact that the components are manufactured by sub-suppliers related to ETA is not a problem to me, these components are manufactured to the customer’s specification and in most cases not off-the-shelf standard components.

Being an engineer myself I’m intrigued by all opportunities the development team would have working out new solutions. The IWC calibre 89361/89365 is an excellent example. I’m not sure it’s more reliable or in any sense actually “better” than the Valjoux chrono – but it’s absolutely more exclusive, to me that’s as important as the look of a watch.

When buying a new IWC earlier this year this ideological perspective swept away the issue of a doubled price.

Dear IWC friends,

I thoroughly share your comments about pricing of ETA or ETA based mechanized watches.

I think we also need to keep in mind that ETA movements are more reliable some of in-house calibers. (not IWC, but there are some others)

My strategy here is to go for in-house calibers with specialty mechanism and particular complication. Otherwise what is point for solo tempo or simple day date mechanisms?

While ETA movements have been regarded as ordinary, I mean, what are the main differences between hundreds of in-house movements from hundreds of brands?

Noooo!! Oh well, I love my gear box. :-)

Hi Matteo,

[ul]
[li]I really would classify an IWC Grande Complication as a high end watch.[/li]
[li]A beautiful Portuguese chronograph with an inhouse movement exists. Now it's up to you which one you like more - I mean the complete package. I would neither of them call cheap - neither regarding pricing nor the watch (or any part of it) itself.[/li]
[li]I would go one step further and say: The overall quality of the watch including any part of it (of course the movement too) matters. Reducing a watch to its movement is like reducing a car to an engine (sorry for the dull comparison but this seems very popular and is understood by everybody). ;-)[/li]
[li]I would not put a watch or movement brand into categories that don't exactly fit which is done very often. This leads to overall wrong conclusions.[/li]
[li]I really want to congratulate you to a wonderful watch you have. This is one of the icons of IWC and one of the best value for money high end watch out in the market in my humble opinion. I happiliy owned this for years and just had to trade it in to get another watch dream done. Otherwise it would still be mine.[/li]
[/ul]

Japanese Porker gearboxes? Manual or auto? I was told that my 997 manual box (is there an alternative?) was based on Valjoux 7750.

The mother of all pointless arguments.

Hi IWC fellow friends.
I fully agree with you Telecaster! The magic and the allure which comes along with an in-house caliber is really a plus.

But I also believe that some 3rd-party calibers have a special place in the horological history. I have to admit that I've got a soft spot in my heart for column-wheel chronos: Lemania, Venus, vintage Valjoux, all are marvels!! And I would like to spend few words also on the Frederic Piguet calibers i.e. the Piguet 1185...such a movement!! I wouldn't put these movements anywhere below any in-house movements. Anyone! And please, don't tell me they are peers of Sellita's or 7750's. They are simply in another league. This is just my humble opinion, of course!

Then there is the IW79240. In fact, I think that the IWC Portuguese chronograph movement plays in a league of its own with its beautiful finish and its second-hand placed at 9 o'clock. Such an unique rework of the 7750! Unfortunately it is not a column-wheel...and the 7750 is not a prestigious caliber to start with...it lacks of uniqueness, prestige, traditional built/construction. Totally a different choice from what Blancpain, Vacheron, Patek, AP or Rolex did when they used/use F. Piguet, Lemania, JLC, Zenith El-Primero base calibers. Just my two cents.

Cheers
Matteo

Hi Everyone,

I have one or two questions i could not find any information about.

Since Iam OK with the ETA7750 as a solid base for my 3717,
I still like the thought of having the movement assembled and tuned at IWC - instead of buing it readymade from ETA.
Therefore I got myself a 3717 from 1997 just to be sure ;)

But here my question in the hope to get some valid information:

1. Since when did IWC start to order readymade 7750's.
2. What might be the better movement from a quality perspective?
   a. assembled at ETA
   b. tuned at IWC
   c. no diference at all

thanks for you time,
& help with this

André

I am going to venture an answer, coupled with an opinion, for you, Andre. I don't know the specific date when Swatch started providing completed movements, but it was not that long ago-certainly with the last 5-7 years. While it was always nice for Houses to say that the amount of work that was done to an ETA blank was such that the movement became an "IWC" or "Breitling", this seemed to upset the Hayeks, and after some Court maneuvering we have the present situation. Remember, however, if the blanks provided by Swatch/ETA weren't of excellent quality to start with watch houses would have gone somewhere else to get the blanks. There were, and are, alternatives,although not on the same scale. Now that ETA finishes the movement (supposedly to the specs supplied by the individual Houses) there should really be NO drop off in quality. ETA are an experienced and well trained work force, and I would bet the equal of any watchmaking workforce in Switzerland. And it helps to keep the prices down.

Hi Mike,

So if I get you right ETA produces individually for different companies. Means the IWC specific ones you will not find in any other watch than an IWC. Which would be nice, because it´s an outsourced Homemade then (in my eyes).

I would love to see photos from an "old" and "new" movement,
maybe i have to change my life and become a watchmaker ;)
- a new challenge to get those pictures.

thank you very much for your input,
André

I do not think we can ever got to know if a brand-specified movement differs from the TOP from shelf at all or not, and if yes, to what extent. Deep silence throughout the branch, be it Swatch, Breitling, IWC, or whoever.
IWC has the ready-made movements instead of the kits from about 2007.
One remark: 3717 was not yet produced in 1997, it was the time of the 3706 then.

This is something I have heard but have not attempted to verify independently. There are people who post on this Forum who would probably know; and maybe some will notice this thread is up and running again and will take the time to definitively answer the part about the uniqueness of the supplied movements. I really do not care that much where a chronograph movement comes from. Every one that is cased by IWC, old or new, ETA or in-house, has worked just fine in my experience

Roberto,
thanks for this information.
and you are completely right - my watch is from 2007 - and not 1997 ;)

I think IWC could release them selves easily from all this rumors and blury discussions, with a detailed statement what modifications exactly they order. Transparence in this case can only be positive. Something like the statement from 1998 in Uhrenjournal.

And as they put so much $ into marketing - there should be someone seing this;)

At least its nice to know the story behind the things you own - instead of living with black-boxes.

André

So any verified information to when is the date (2006 ? 2007 ?) when IWC stopped modifying ETA 7750 themselves and started getting them as completed kits from ETA ?

I have a 2005 3719 AT and would love to know if my piece was still modified by IWC

According to my knowledge IWC has bought complete assembled ETA-Valjoux 7750-s since 2007.

here´s a good overview from bill who posted this already 2011:

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