Currently, I understand that the Portuguese Chronos use a modified Valjoux movement, and I was wondering if there were any plans to fit an in-house movement in it anytime in the near future (next couple of years).
At the moment, I think it's one of the most beautiful watches out there, but the one thing holding me back is that I would prefer my next big purchase to have an in house movement. If this "upgrade" was on the cards then I would happily wait.
Hi RANO85,
I don't have the answer but you may like this :)
www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/31401/?page=1
You're not alone!
Hi RANO85
There are rumors about this, but honestly: I would not want that. I hope IWC stays with the 7750. There are more than 10 good reasons why they should:
[ol]
[li]Service: A service of a 89xxx Calibre is about 10 times more complex than servicing a 7750 calibre. This will have an influence on
[ol]
[li]your waiting time when the watch has to go to service, [/li]
[li]on the price of the service and [/li]
[li]on the fact that you will not have the choice where to have it serviced [/li]
[/ol][/li]
[li]Robustness: No chrono calibre in the world can be more robust, as this calibre probably is the one with the longest history and is the most used mechanical chrono in history[/li]
[li]Accuracy: The 7750 is by far more accurate than the 89xxx. The accurate movement has been invented already. [/li]
[li]Price: The watch would be higher priced [/li]
[li]Rattrapante: It is technically almost impossible to have a Rattrapante function on the basis of the 89xxx. I still hope IWC will bring that complication also back to the Portuguese - as it was with the 3712 - the REAL icon of that time [/li]
[li]Size: I am almost sure that the elegant size of the 3714 can't be kept with a 89xxx calibre.[/li]
[li]Capacity: IWC would have a constraint in producing the number of movements needed[/li]
[li]Lack of steel back: IWC would for sure use the sapphire glass back. This would make it impossible to personalize the watch, as there is no space for engravings[/li]
[li]History: The 7750 still exists because IWC saved the production at ETA from being stopped, by agreeing a minimum number of movements to be ordered per year. It is actually more an IWC movement than many people think.[/li]
[li]Relation to Swatch Group: IWC has a good relationship to Swatch Group and therefore can order this movement according to its quality standards. Nobody fears that Swatch would stop delivering this movement.[/li]
[/ol]
So by all means, buy the watch now as long as you can!
Regulateur, whilst one could discuss and compare opinions for each and every point you list, (and I'm sure there would be 101 opinions - LoL) the one point I do want to dispute/raise is your comment of;
"Accuracy: The 7750 is by far more accurate than the 89xxx. The accurate movement has been invented already."
May I ask, on what you base this statement?
Accuracy of a movement, always depends on how well the I individual movement is regulated. I own IWC's with both Caliber's and can assure you that the Cal. 89365 fitted timepiece is as accurate if not more, than any of my Cal.7750's. (IWC modified) pieces.
I am not commenting, one way or the other, on any rumors, future plans, etc.
However, with respect I must disagree with some of the statements made by Regulateur relative to factual matters. I'm candidly not sure where some of this information is obtained, but it is inconsistent what I've been told.
Specifically:
A rattrapante could be done with the Cal. 893xxx....whether it's too thick from a design perspective might be another question. Whether it makes sense from a sales perspective or cost-benefit perspective might be still another question.
Based on information I have, I am not at all sure of the conclusion, stated as fact, that "The 7750 still exists because IWC saved the production at ETA from being stopped, by agreeing a minimum number of movements to be ordered per year."
Based on information I have I am unsure about the conclusion, stated as fact, that "IWC has a good relationship to Swatch Group and therefore can order this movement according to its quality standards. Nobody fears that Swatch would stop delivering this movement." I believe that IWC tries to have very good relationships with its suppliers but also I know there was some "tugging" to get some of IWC's specifications done by ETA here.
In all events, none of these three points support (or deny) Regulateur's premise regarding 7750 movements in Portuguese Chronos.
for me my two 89XXX movements are more accurate than any of the 7750 movements. 89XXX deviates say a second fast in a week, but the 7750s about +1 to +2 per day.
This post is hidden. You cannot not see its contents.
Hidden by on 8 Nov 2018, 4:38 p.m..
Ahhhh, no comment...
[QUOTE="Michael Friedberg"]I am not commenting, one way or the other, on any rumors, future plans, etc.
However, with respect I must disagree with some of the statements made by Regulateur relative to factual matters. I'm candidly not sure where some of this information is obtained, but it is inconsistent what I've been told.
Specifically:
A rattrapante could be done with the Cal. 893xxx....whether it's too thick from a design perspective might be another question. Whether it makes sense from a sales perspective or cost-benefit perspective might be still another question.
Based on information I have, I am not at all sure of the conclusion, stated as fact, that "The 7750 still exists because IWC saved the production at ETA from being stopped, by agreeing a minimum number of movements to be ordered per year."
Based on information I have I am unsure about the conclusion, stated as fact, that "IWC has a good relationship to Swatch Group and therefore can order this movement according to its quality standards. Nobody fears that Swatch would stop delivering this movement." I believe that IWC tries to have very good relationships with its suppliers but also I know there was some "tugging" to get some of IWC's specifications done by ETA here.
In all events, none of these three points support (or deny) Regulateur's premise regarding 7750 movements in Portuguese Chronos.
[/QUOTE
Hello Mr. Friedberg
Ad 1: This information was obtained directly from Stefan Ihnen, the Engineer who developed the calibre.
Ad 2: You can ask Kurt Klaus for verification. He is the source for mine.
Ad 3: My statement was a repetition of what Mr. Kern told to a group of collectors three years ago.
But actually, I am very happy to see that only these few points found disagreement.
Please do not misunderstand me. I also disagree with several of your other points, but I consider those subjective values judgments, and I had no need nor desire to debate those with you. I was only mentioned the factual issues where I disagreed.
I of course know and communicated somewhat regularly with Messrs. Ihnen, Klaus and Kern. I stand by what I wrote. I sometimes find that asking a person a question in one context gets an answer which, depending on wording, might differor be variously interpreted. I also sometimes find that paraphrases or translations sometimes distort. But we have to agree to disagree here.
I would never dare to debate with you - I just felt that obviously it is helpful to show the reference for the information I gave. This has nothing to do with translation or context - unless you question my abilities to talk in German with the persons mentioned ;-)
Hi guys,
Regarding point 3,in an after-sales context,the factory defined daily rate(tolerance) for the 79XXX calibres used in 3714's/3712's is -2/+7 seconds per day. For 893XX calibres the tolerance is tighter at 0/+7 seconds per day,implying a movement capable of better accuracy.
Other notable points would be the increased power-reserve,68 hours compared with 44 hours.Also the greater efficency of the bidirectional automatic winding system of the 893XX can offer that 68 hours PR after only 4 hours on a standard 4 rotations/minute winding wheel. The unidirectional system of the 79XXX takes 6 hours to on the wheel to fully charge.
At the end of the day, these are only statistics for movements. There is no 3714 with an 893XX movement and 2013 being the year of the Inge, it would be at least a year and a half before the possibility even arises.
The 3714 is an iconic IWC and if you have the opportunity to get one now,do so! You can start saving afterwards to purchase a hypothetical 893XX model in 2 or 3 years time.
Leo
David,
I like it a lot better when we just post some pics, talk about watches and enjoy what this Forum has to offer. Like these two guys...
Alan - guess what I do? I enjoy the forum and the different opinions represented here. Sometimes I post pictures, sometimes I like discussing. I don't think that there is something wrong with that?
Glad to hear it. One of the things I like about this Forum is that it is actually and well moderated.
In my role as moderator I suggest we just go back now to discussing here a future in-house movement relative to Reference 3714 :)
Discuss Michael?
:)
LOL!
Two thumbs up, Roberto!
OK - Sellita is in the game.
Alan, I thought you would rather like to post pictures?
I am looking for a picture of a future Portuguese chronograph movement.
Hi Regulateur,
The 3714 has been done in both metal back and display back - see 3714-06/07/08, 3712-07 and many more and the VC Ingenieur is originally a display back but has also been released as a steel back with "customisation" - see the Laureus edition. Just because a watch may have a nice looking movement doesn't always mean that it will only be released with a display back.
RANO85 - if you like the current watch, go for it, it is a good looking watch, has a nice profile and a well proven caliber - it is kind of like saying you wouldn't buy a Maserati because they come with Ferrari engines instead of in-house Maserati engines. . . . You could always be waiting for something bigger, better, faster, stronger to come out and miss out on enjoying something now.
Cheers,
Ben