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It's Sunday morning here and I check all the usual sites for watches for sale. On a popular auction site, there were more than 30 IWC "marriages" out there (as most know, a marriage is a watch made with some authentic parts, and often are pocket watches converted to wristwatches). Above is a quick view of some of them, just from today,
Why in the world are so many IWC marriages being produced? Most are from the Ukraine, but some are from Russia, Hungary and Poland. It's become an industry.
Wow. Some are just plain Fugly. Buyer beware; buy the seller as the saying goes.
I guess even a married IWC looks better, and generates more money, than a single Poljot.
Kind regards,
Paul
It is an old problem and it will remain a plague.
I bet every collector,particularly those who who buy vintage IWC have been deceived once or more. Probably, to pay learning money is part of the learning curve.
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).
I concur with Michael here.
On Swiss e-market they also appear, especially on auction sites where I have often seen them going for the price of a nice cal.83-89 in gold.
That is imho. really surprising, why would someone give that much money for a marriage? Housing is not even good, nor close to what IWC does.
I appreciate all comments, but also I was asking "why so many now?" The number appears to be especially large currently.
I'm guessing it's due to the popularity of very large watches and the fact that IWC has produced over the past several years many Portuguese and Portofino models that have clear pocket watch "looks". It's a way to get one for a lot less money.
I can understand the need to keep cost under control (one of my first modern watch purchases was an Eberhard Traversetolo, which really was a Unitas-based "Portuguese") for a fraction of the cost. But also I think all these marriages, each of which has destroyed a pocket watch, at best is sad and at worst deceiving.
OK, more details on why "so many currently" from a personal view.
Obviously large watches are fashion but did you investigate how many fakes from other high-end brands are around?
The reason of less cost for a marriage is not always valid. Only on rare occasions the seller of a marriage will tell you that it is a marriage and many times a premium price is asked. The majority of the sellers pretend the item they sell is genuine.
There are many pw movements around which have a distinct historical value : Jones, Seeland, Pallweber. To build such movement in a non-authentic case makes me angry and sad. But I learned that only purists have the same thoughts. Several IWC collectors, well aware of having a genuine IWC pw movement, desecrate it by putting it in a wrist watch case and wear the combination on the wrist. For a purist this violation is disgusting. Sorry,for the choice of wording but this is my personal opinion.
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).
divorce divorce! =)
regards,
thang
They are not what they are supposed to be..."desecrate" is the correct verb!
Many people at watch club meetings bring recased IWC pocket watches and argue with me that it is still an IWC. They are convinced that they have rescued a useless PW and have given it a new life.
No amount of explaining the realities to them seem to penetrate their conviction.
One such person really got angry with me and told me I was too particular and that nothing would be good enough for me!
Another told me "well, I like it and that's all that matters"
I know that they spent in excess of $2000 to have cases made and fitted. Oh well......
Quite interesting!
The people that remake the watch first have bought, or got, a pocket watch, apparently at a reasonable, low price when compared to wrist watches. Then, they decide to make a wrist watch out of the pocket watch. To do so, they pay a lot of money for the recasing. In the end they are happy with the result, so much that they get emotional when someone comments on this procedure. They say it is still an IWC watch, because the movement is from IWC.
I wonder: if I remember what was written here before, in the old days the movements were shipped to the USA and cased by a third party. Even in Switzerland this was a common practice. So, apart from getting rid of the original non-IWC pocket watch case, the procedure used by the current watch owners is not that different from the old practice, one could argue that in a way the old pocket watch was a joined effort anyway, just like the current marriage.
Of course it is a pity to destroy an original pocket watch, but tranforming a useless object (in the eyes of the owner) into a useful, unique wrist watch with an original old IWC movement can at least be understood, although I cannot understand why to bother to do so in the first place, there being so many beautiful new wrist watches around. And as for destroying watches, what about the RAF, killing all those Mark watches... That really hurts.
Kind regards,
Paul
Some of them are, if not lying outright, deceptive - if you look at "uhren-atelier" for example, he never calls them marriages, or even hints that they weren't born as wristwatches. Right now he's selling an "absolutely unique" Patek Philippe wristwatch from 1875. No indication if it's a new or modified case, only in the photo of the "Certificate of Identity and Guarantee of Origin" does it mention that the movement is from 1875.
My only explanation is that there are enough people out there that want a very large wristwatch, from a prestigious maker like IWC or PP, but aren't willing to pony up for anything current and large. For my taste, these would make beautiful pocket watches. Maybe they can be converted.
steven
Why in the world are so many IWC marriages being produced? Most are from the Ukraine, but some are from Russia, Hungary and Poland. It's become an industry.
Well, many owners of inherited PWs are not interested in such stuff.
They sell the watches with gold - and silver cases for the metal price.
Those dealers want to make profit with the movements as well.
Wrist watch cases are cheap in production and those movements are for free.
As long as they have customers for such stuff, this market will keep on going, so what.
BTW those movements are real manufacture, not CNC stuff.
Hi
I am new member here!
My name is Victoria from Spain! I have my old pocket watch IWC which it was of my grandgrandpa! The face of this huge watch is not in good condition and i want to renovated it! I was surch in web to find the new dial or people/watchmakers to do it! Finally i find a lot of"Marriage"watches and now i like the idea to transform my lovelly old watch! I take this watch to the watchmakers here in Alicante and they told me that, this is a IWC Caliber 66 movement! After that i find the information for the serial number of my watch and date him to 1912-1913(???) may be, because we have it in our family long time! Now i want to find the right persons to transform the watch, even i have some ideas in my head, but i have not any contacts with watch experts!Please, if somebody here can help me to "reborn" my treasure! I am so sorry for my English!
Thank you!
I guess most of the marriages are made from bare movements. Not good but at least the movement can be recovered. Worse is if they break up a complete pocket watch to rehouse the movement. That is a crime.
On another matter, I once saw on ebay a very rare pocket watch movement (I cannot remember what it was now) and the seller actually admitted that he had melted down the gold case and was now selling the movement - I nearly cried. You want to strangle the seller, but before doing so tell him he would have made double the profit if he had sold it complete!
Alan
Hi
I agree with you, but i want to use this watch all the time, because its a dear memory of my grandpa! But i cannot use it in this condition! The case/body s some brass silver color and the original dial is in very bad condition! That why i want to transform it to wristwatch! May be to customized the body, plate it gold and some new white dial, because i want to keep all the hallmarks there!
Dear Victoria,
I wish that I could change your mind for a number of reasons.
You can buy a complete authentic cal. 66 IWC silver pocket watch for 300-400 Euro and a gold one for the double price.
But that is not the issue. You want your fathers watch "restored" because you have a unique emotional bond with this watch.
By doing it the way you plan you destroy the existence of a true piece of history, both IWC history and your fathers history. By restoring it in its original glory, you save both histories. And why should a lady not wear her fathers pocket watch in here purse? You could start a new trend! There are several ways to restore. If you send the watch to IWC Schaffhausen the job will be done flawlessly but for a high price which can be the double price of its market value. But if you are patient, it is possible to find the parts that you want for a cheap price on ebay. There is one forum member " 8541" who you can track in the archives ( spy glass, upper right) and who finds not only the parts but even the skilled watchmakers who can do this, often in the UK. If you find the parts yourself, the total price of such restoration will be reduced to 200-300 Euro. There is a company in Germany which can restore or fresh up dials in a fabulous way. It would help us to advice you better if you could post som images of your watch : front, back and movement.
Kind regards,
Adrian,
(alwaysiwc).
delete
Delete...
Obviously me and this comment are not getting along. Sorry, I am hoping that Victoria is still on the quest to do something with that pocket watch. I am sure that by honoring your Grandfather, you would not be dishonoring the IWC pocket watch by repurposing it into something useful. There is a company in the US, Vortic, who take old pocketwatch movements and put them in a water resistant case tested to so many atmospheres. The movement is not damaged, it is preserved and the case is sent back to the owner with the newly manufactured watch. The movement can be re-married at anytime with the original case. I am very intrigued by the process as it is a way to make useful, an object which is rather outdated in its fashion, but still very relevant as a timepiece, particularly since it was built without the aid of any computer aided design or tooling. It is expensive, but the value is in the eye of the beholder. I would personally not do a thing to the face. You need not be able to read the face to know what time it is. Leave it in all its original glory.
As for Mr. Whomever sitting in his house skeletonizing and engraving old pocket watch movements or, even new ones, I wish I had the skill and patience. I think what they do is really cool, and believe they could drive the price they get if they were just honest about what they were doing and did not try to pass it off for something it was not. It is still a mechanical device, perhaps manufactured many decades or even a century ago and I am again, very intrigued by them and the work that goes into it. Magnify even machine polished surfaces enough and they look mountainous. In the States, Rat Rods are very popular, you can Google them and look them up. They are the epitome of the Frankenauto...they are wicked cool and some can drive very high prices due to the highly skilled labor involved. Mr Whomever, instead of deceiving the public and being dishonest on EBAY should strive to step up his game, take the time to polish those hand engraved surfaces and really take the time to develop the final design and sell it for what it is. I personally think they are very cool. And they are still very cool mechanical devices. Lets face it....how many of you carry around a pocket watch? Wear spats...Bowlers?? Knowing exactly what they are, I still want one....If more people knew about them, they probably would to. They are the Rat Rods of the Watch World and they are not Quartz pieces of @#%)....I think they are cool...Just know what it is.
Not all marriages are alike. There are marriages and then...there are marriages. Putting all marriages in the same sac is not a good idea. The difference is on the intention to preserve and not to destroy.
Extending the use of a pocket watch, which in modern life will have little use, and allowing it to be used also on the wrist, while preserving everything, can only be a good thing for selected pocket watches.
My $.02
I tend to agree with you. Now we have USD .04 together which is still not too much but enough to calm our souls :)
Hi I'm new. Personally I wouldn't get a marriage watch but if people want to make one out of an old PW then I've nothing against it. Getting mad at the practice would be like getting mad at someone putting an ikea kitchen into a stately home.. we would all prefer if it didn't happen but it's their property and life goes on!i think the main issue is sellers not advertising it. There's nothing wrong with selling and buying a marriage watch. Just look at the amount of antique dressers turned into tv cabinets. seems to me that sellers who don't say are hoping for someone who doesn't know the difference which isn't very nice. Buyer beware unfortunately