Interesting Review of the Portuguese Chronograph Classic

The blog Hodinkee has an interesting "a week on the wrist" review of the new Portuguese Chronograph Classic.you can read it by clicking here.

Comments on the review here would be welcomed.

I think the review is quite fair, and not very surprising. What I find surprising is the comments of the readers that mostly are not that positive: quite different than here. It sounded a bit like the old German forum here. The pictures didn't look that favourable to me, the watch looked a bit more bulky than it probably is when you go by the pictures, wrist shots, shown here.

As always: you have to see the watch for yourself on your own wrist before deciding.

Kind regards,
Paul

I have seen it and had it on my wrist and while I agree that it is a little pricy, it is on my list of "must haves". It's versatility with jeans or a suit make it a perfect travel watch for me.

Kevin

hmmm...I am not familiar with Hodinkee, but when reading the 'about' and looking a bit into the blog, it looks a serious forum...
I will wait to see what other forumers here will comment..however, I agree with Paul that the photos comparing 3714 to 3904, display 3904 a bit bulky...
what however caught my eyes in this review were the comments on the movement- as the review states, the appearance of 3904 was probably majorly driven by the wish of having finally a Portuguese chronograph with an in-house movement...this of course is also directly related with the major price difference between the two models...hence the 'not gorgeous' point in the pros/cons probably requires some feedback on this forum..
greetings,
yitzhak

I had a look at my 1st one in the flesh at my AD today. I thought it looked great. It's a little smaller than I like but otherwise all good.

Movement not gorgeous? I can't agree with that.

I basically think it's a fair, would even say positive, review. We must also remember that most of us at this forum are biased.

However it's surprising that there were no comments about the vintage style dome shaped crystal, design-vise I think it's brilliant.

Since Gothenburg is a small city I had my first chance to see it physically at my latest US trip a month ago. It obviously has a more "busy" look compared to the ref 3714. I think it look awesome, very classy, and I also agree with the reviewer that it should not be considered a straight successor to the 3714 - the look is new and the movement offers a different set of features.

Best
/Anders

Honest review and useful somehow. Thinking of its utility I believe you could do it 10 times better Michael; it would be very useful to have a "Week on the wrist" review made by you and posted on the forum or somewhere else in the IWC site.

A work like that could also turn out useful to a lot of people like, potential buyers visiting the boutiques (maybe undecided, your reviews could ease their purchase process), IWC employees working at the boutiques, they'd have an easy and ready to use "reference-book" to consult to refresh their knowledge about products, etc.

My 2 cents :)

This is an excellent review, very balanced, and it perfectly describes my thougts about this watch as well. Thank you very much, Michael, for linking it here!

It is somehow disappointing that the elegance of the 3712 / 3714 of the 5000 can't be matched anymore, not even talking about the older models. However, I am sure that the sales figures will lead the way back someday.

The comments made are interesting and show a clear picture of the emotions in the IWC-interested public. I see more of this kind being allowed and coming more often in this forum also, which makes this forum an interesting place for true friends of the brand. Also this is something I would like to thank Michael for.

I tend very much to agree with you...I think balanced and objective opinions make a more serious impression than automatic acclamations and are probably also more and more welcomed on the forum...I believe that many of us will not necessarily be exposed to the review on Hodinkee that is highly positive on one hand, but also highlights for example the movement issue, so I think it's really appreciated that Michael has brought the link here for initiation of further discussions..
best,
yitzhak

I preferred the review by our Forummer 'Ray in LA' posted June 28, 2013 particularly as he had already put his money on it.

Thanks Michael, perfect review IMO with lovely pictures. These also perfectly show how deceptive 'size' is.

Best regards,

Bob

Michael, a fair and in my opinion positive review.

While I guess we all at first glance/moment would want to agree "the price is too high" ... after some thought, accept that that is a direct result of "our" (the consumers) wishes for an in-house movement.

When Hodinkee writes: "The Caliber 89361 features an impressive 68 hour reserve, flyback function, and the aforementioned hour and minute counters combined in a totalizer at 12 o’clock. Using the functions you immediately realize that this is a truly serious movement, from smooth winding and easy chronograph actuation to a snappy quick-date set and hacking functionality. Unlike the Valjoux-based caliber in the 3714 the spinning of the oscillating weight on your wrist will also go entirely unnoticed." he is describing exactly how I feel about this watch.

I wonder if there is any truth in the rumor that he asked IWC if he could keep that watch a bit longer?

As a new member of the Classic Club, this review really grabbed my interest since I have both the 3714 and now the 3904 in the exact variations profiled.

First, great pic's and excellent comparison shots of old Chrono vs. new Classic. Enjoyed the front dials views, side look of thickness and crown/pushers and a glimpse of the movement display back all helpful to those contemplating a purchase.

The reviewer did a nice job of giving a balanced report complete with enough specific details of the features and a photo gallery so that one could conclude that the old vs. new really are unique in themselves. I found it interesting that there was not much attention given to the "arched glass" and it's contribution to the retro look. I believe a mention of a domed crystal was used which IMO describes a more Pilot type of glass setup. I would have also liked to see some additional comments on the Santoni strap.

Pricing seemed to be a central focus and based on the reviewer's viewpoint and subsequent replies, the consensus seemed to be that the Classic was somewhat overpriced. I would not disagree that the Classic may be a bit overpriced but I would also say that I think watch pricepoints in general are becoming something that needs to be a concern to all manufactures. That said...there are a number of brands that are managing to knock out some fantastic pieces that are considered real values. IMHO, IWC should evaluate it's policy on the ability of a Boutique to have more flexibility on profit margin. As AD's are being squeezed out of the overall distribution channel, the dominance of the Boutique point of purchase with little pricing wiggleroom may come back to haunt top line revenue results in the near future. Last word on pricing. Staying within the IWC Portuguese Collections, the Classic steel @ 13,000 USD is often compared to the YC due to the dial design and the use of the same movement. The YC steel offers some additional features such as lume, screw down crown and better WR. At 14,000 USD is the Classic priced accordingly ? You be the judge.

Thanks for reading my thoughts,

Andy

To my thinking it's the other way around: lume and slightly different case engineering don't cost $1000. Santoni straps, on the other hand, cost just under $500.

The problem is that many buyers --and some reviewers-- don't really fully appreciate nor understand movements. They like 3714s, which is a nice watch, regardless of the movement. From a craft and engineering perspective the in-house chrono movement is worth double, and not just that it's in-house. Some just like "cool" looking watches, and they're missing a lot.

Michael

I fully agree that the in-house movement is much more complex and therefore might be of more interest to the devoted collectors. However, for the general public, this does not hold.

But when we are talking about prices and comparisons, the discussion is somehow awkward or even tends to be hilarious, as we are talking about luxury watches where the real costs for production are only a minor part of the consideration, when setting the price. Georges Kern nicely described that in the video that was linked here some time ago.

So, the question is more: How can I as a company maximize the revenue? Where is the point where the two lines of price and number of potential buyers cross? It is my personal assumption that the assessment in this case will be proven wrong, which is for us collectors not a bad thing: It would not the first time that a luxury brand, including IWC, would make corrections to the price at a later stage.

Actually, I reach somewhat different conclusions from the same facts. Georges Kern wasn't saying that "we can charge whatever we can get" when he was saying that people buy watches out of emotion. What motivates a person to buy doesn't necessarily mean that pricing is done that way.

In IWC's instance pricing is really a function of its internal costs (although I would admit that there some --a few really-- irregularities where pricing could be better considered).

However, you and others would be surprised to learn that the Portuguese Classic Chronograph is an example of the other extreme. Based on its internal costs, it actually should be priced higher than its actual price. In the U.S., its initial retail priced was reduced by over 1000 USD before the watch entered the market.

Its price only seems high compared to the ETA-based, spring driven movement in the reference 3714 (and don't get me wrong --I like and have several such movements). I would admit, however, that much of the general public doesn't appreciate the engineering, design or finishing of the column-wheel chronograph in the new Portuguese Chronograph Classic.

I would raise the somewhat rhetorical question, then: should IWC move to more sophisticated movements but at a higher price point? My view --not as a collector but as a purist-- is yes, even if that makes it harder for me to afford as many. It's what fine mechanical watches are all about.

Thanks, Michael, for making this review available. To me, it seems problematical on two major grounds.

First, where and how did the reviewer obtain the watch? This is a legitimate question in light of his comment about its less-than-stellar accuracy (plus eight seconds per day). It is not enough to say that the watch may not have been "market ready or properly adjusted." Is it not reasonable to assume that ANY watch provided for review will have been adjusted at the factory prior to its being released? Otherwise, how is a fair appraisal of its accuracy possible?

Next, there is the question of the accuracy itself. If the reviewer was disappointed by the watch's rate, then why did he not include that evaluation in the "cons" part of his capsule evaluation at the close of the review?

If the watch reviewed was in fact properly adjusted and still ran eight seconds a day fast, then my impression is further confirmed that IWC's ETA-modified movements (owners of Mark XVs, XVIs, and XVIIs typically report a couple of seconds fast per day) regularly outperform its in-house movements, many of whose owners report rates like plus six to eight seconds daily.

Hmm.

Cheers to all!

Donald

Hi Donald,

Interesting points. I woudl never deny the "tractor-like" qualities of the ETA 2892 movement, or even 2824s (which IWC doesn't use).

However, I think the article's author made a typical amateur's mistake of looking at accuracy rather than precision. Because that also is so common here in "evaluating" movements, I would commend this excellent recent article by Jack Forster explaining the difference click here.