Hello all,
I have recently bought a beautiful watch - as you can see in the attached picture.
Supposed to be a IWC ~1938 Caliber 83 Portofino 750k Gold watch.
I love the art deco style and the watch is in perfect condition.
However I am not sure if this is a genuine IWC watch.
I could not find this art deco style dial anywhere in the catalogs.
Can anyone help? I would love to learn more about this watch.
Many thanks in advance!
Morton
I can't say if it's genuine but 1938 the name Portofino was not born for IWC's watches. That has been around 1985 I think with the moonphase Portofino watch.
The dial looks strange in a way but as stated, I am not an expert for vintage watches.
Totally fake.
I don't think an 83 beats inside.
I don't think it's a fake, the case looks good. The dial is correct with recessed sub-second scale. Although it appears to be repainted with a bit of creativity and artistry.
If you can open the case back and show us the movement, we can tell you more.
case is not from IWC
crown is not from IWC
hands are not from IWC
dial is not repainted (font is not from IWC) but "fantasy"
Only a view inside can clarify a C.83.
My opinion is: Someone has found a "C.83", adapted a dial and put in into a case with a fitting diameter for the movement.
That means fake.
Regards
HEBE
Thanks to everyone for responding, this is really appreciated. I will have the watch opened and paste some pics of the movement into the forum.
Here is picture of the movement and the inside of the case lid.
The case (1036363) and movement numbers (994809) show up in the catalog, but not sure how much that tells anything...
Let me know your view.
Thanks!
Morton
It tells a lot and it makes me change my former opinion !
Indeed an authentic IWC case back with a C.83.
So, only the dial looks strange.
Regards
HEBE
On the case - see the photo I posted of the back.
The hands are very simple, blue-ed steel, but look similar to catalog item 38 of the attached IWC catalog from the 40s.
The dial I have not found anywhere, closest are the dials number 9 or 8 of the catalog items below (also digit "4" in dial 11) - but the numbers are still a bit different in style (more pure art deco):
Hello Morton and welcome to the forum. I am with Hebe, I only have questions about the dial, never saw a font used like that.
Case and caliber are in great condition. I hope that someone can confirm the dial is OK.
I had a quick look at the dials found on www.iwcforum.com/Vintage_Catalogs.html
and didn't found any similar dials.
The dial is repainted but the watch otherwise the watch is original. But also it's not a Portofino model.
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Hidden by on 8 Nov 2018, 5:06 p.m..
Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. This is a very active and helpful forum!
Can someone explain me what "repainted" means exactly. Who would normally do this and why?
The dial looks absolutely perfect (except that the "International Watch Co" label is not totally horizontal, but has a slight inclination of 1 degree or so).
I assume, that the dial was never provided by IWC if none of the experts here ever saw one like this. And the inclination of the IWC label is another hint for that.
So somebody created a new replacement dial. This in fact isn't repainted.
Just my assumption. If you don't mind that, it's ok. The watch is very nice and given the rest were original it still is a great watch, though not 100% original IWC.
The dial shows heavy signs of being re-pained if the signature is ignored
Thank you. What would those sign be? Can you explain?
Due to the fact that the dial is in a style that none of us recognize, and is not in character with what IWC supply as standard we must assume that the dial was replaced completely with a non standard item ie REDIAL.
A repainted dial is one that is stripped down and numerals, indeces or tick marks reapplied. This is done when there is damage or dirt on the dial from heavy use or water ingress causing mould etc. Also sometime a person removing the hands can scratch the dial making it look unsightly.
Unfortunately, people think that a clean sparkly dial is better than an old speckled and patinaed dial, but originality is always more desirable.
I confirm my mind: case, dial, hands are fake.
Back is probably from IWC but heavely polished (outside).
Movement seems to be an original IWC83 (to look better, from real).
LOVING2000
On what do you base your conclusion?
This is definitely not an "ugly" watch! I stand by my original statement.
Dear Mark,
Fake watches are always "ugly" (the worst of ugliness).
In my prevoius comments I've already explain why I think that.
The dial is not repainted because don't reproduce an original IWC font, it's just fantasy.
Somebody has taken an IWC movement, probably an IWC gold back and put all together.
Personnaly I find the final result unwatchable.
HaHa - unwatchable, that's funny :-)
But I still like the watch
LOVING2000
Thanks for insulting my watch.
I still like it. I understand the comments above on redial or repaint, not being an expert how this was done. Being a typesetter myself I would say that the fonts are not far off some some of the catalog examples I pasted earlier. But someone gave the a bit more of an art deco touch. To me this results in a unique time piece combined with 70+ years of history and I am good with that.
Then it is perfect for you and don't let this diminish your fun with this watch. Knowing it is not 100% original is good. But it still is a nice watch with a great movement. Enjoy.
