IWC vs Rolex

Hello everybody,
I'm thinking about one of the most natural comparison: Rolex and IWC. Which is better? I can answer IWC. Some movement produced by IWC are just a dream for Rolex, but there is one argoument that make me be less confident about this choice: the pretty fast remake/replacement of the models by IWC. I'v got a Rolex Explorer II bought in 1991. It's absolutely actual; the one on the Rolex catalogue is quite exactly he same. And this really matter for the market value that it's higher that the original one. Think at the submariner or at the daytona: they never change and they keep or increase their value.
I've got a GST Aquatimer bought few years ago; the actual model is absolutely different.

A second point is that the price comparable (around 4 thousands Euros) watches between the two brands, have, on the IWC side, an ETA based movement , a movement not completely in house and, in my modest opinion, not so fine. The Ingenieur or the big pilot or the other "super-movement" are really expensive. Probably the ingenieur is the IWC best choice to match exceptional 100% in house movement with the price/market value. But what about aquatimer, portofino, the smallest pilot?

I'v got also the Portoguese Chrono. What about that?

Sorry for any mistake.
Regards,
Matteo

IWC vs Rolex

I agree, I really like the Aquatimer 353602 and think it's a classic, it's a real pity they have stopped producing it. But if you think about it, the price of our GST's can only go up in value because in a few years you can still buy a Rolex and it will be the same as yours, but the GST I'm sure will be more difficult to get hold of...

Everybody can decide ...

... on what he or she spends his money. I would never buy a Rolex because I don't like the designs at all.

And compared IWC isn't more expensive than Rolex. The ETA-based movements are as fine, robust and accurate as any other high-end movement. Maybe they aren't as exclusive in a sense. But on the other hand, if Rolex produces almost 1.000.000 (I'm not sure if this number is very accurate, just a wild guess) watches a year, are their movements that exclusive?

And: a watch is more than a movement only. IWC is one of the companies which shows this best. The Aquatimers and Pilot's watches are very good examples to prove this. Their designs, their engineered and well manufactured cases, let alone their bracelets, the engineering of the crowns and pushers: Everything is so well engineered, designed and produced (INHOUSE!), I am not sure if other companies can do something similar.

Last but no least: Everybody can and must decide on what she or he wants to spend her or his money. And where to get the best value for money. And in this case my personal decision is IWC.

Tilo

About IWC...

I love IWC. IWC it's my favourite brand, but I think IWC should stop use ETA-base movements. Currently not only complications but first of all "in-house" movements decide about prestige of brand in eyes of customers.

Prestige is like image

For me not relevant. If I like a watch and can afford it, I will buy it. If I only like it but can never afford I won't buy it.

And if IWC only produces inhouse movements I guess they won't be affordable any more. Of course I'd like an IWC only movement in a Pilot's chrono. But only if it will not make the watch significantly more expensive.

But I guess inhouse movements make the watches more expensive.

My opinion is that not all customers think only in terms of prestige and inhouse movements. Otherwise IWC wouldn't have been so successful in the past.

Tilo

IWC vs Rolex

Matteo, you have an interesting point. I own both brands and I think they are both great watches. I do respect Rolex for keeping the design the same over the years, as a result, models such as Submariners became icons for dive watches and is copied by numerous manufacturers.

But, they are also slow in adopting new technology, the fact that they refuse to upgrade the flimsy center link for the bracelet despite numerous complaints is mystifying. Or how about the steadfast refusal to upgrade the crystal with AR coatings.

The bottom line is demand for Rolex still far exceed supply, they capped their manufacturing volume to around 750K/year, below the public demand. As a result, they can control dealer discount and raise price each year for the same watch. I suppose if the public can't get enough of what you make, then there's less incentive to improve it.

For IWC, it seems to be far more engineering/technolgy oriented. Enhancements are more frequent to accomodate the new upgrades. My engineering brain tells me it is a good thing.

When I comes to resale, I personally never care. As I have never sold any of my collection, like Tilo, I buy what I want. If you want something that will appreciate in value, find a good stock and buy a practicaly watch. Rarely will a watch appreciate faster than a solid stock pick.

ETA base in IWC watches.....

is unfortunate. I would rather have an in-house base movement in all IWC watches, especially the pilot series. Nevertheless, that does not stop me from owning IWCs that have ETA engines. I like the case, dial, engineering, finish and workmanship enough to jusfity the shortcoming in the movement.

I buy what I want.

Hi Gordon,

buy what you want is the only way for a real enthusiast. I did this the same way. I never thought of selling a watch when I bought it. And I wouldn't have sold if there had been another way. But there's no regret that I did. I'm still so happy with my 5001.

And I think everyone should buy a watch because of the watch and not of the prestige.

Best regards
Tilo

I buy what I want.

Tilo...
Why you bought IWC Portuguese Automatic with in-house movement ?.
I think customer wants have exceptional watch. ETA movement it's mass product, nothing special. Exceptional watch must have complications and in-house movement. Therefore in many countries, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Vacheron Constatin, Patek Philippe, are more esteemed than IWC.

Regards
Mariusz

with respect...

Your facts are wrong. Until about 2 years ago Vacheron Constantin did not have an inhouse wristwatch movement, and even now their inhouse movement is used in few of their watches. In the past decades there has not been a Patek chronograph with an inhouse movement, including its esteemed Ref. 3970 and 5970 perpetual calendar-chronographs. The fact is those watches sell for alot --now close to 100,000 USD-- and no one complains about the Lemania-base movement nor is demand slack. Nor have I ever heard anyone way that the Patek chronograph is not "prestgious" nor less valued than an inhouse chronograph movement of other brands.

My personal opinion is that people who value --or even consider--watches based upon a public perception of "prestige" are looking at watches very superfically. We are starting with a very different value set.

I have no intent to defend the ETA-2892 but I have never heard one person tell me what was technically wrong with the quality of the movement. It is more common, but also it can be used in 3000 USD watches --and frankly you can't buy any new Patek or Vacheron at anywhere near that price point. And if "prestige"means "more expensive" then, again, we have different values.

Regards,
Michael

with respect...

Michael,
high price it isn't my value but.... look here

www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

Regards

That's just one man's opinion...

..which doesn't make him right (or wrong). I've seen lots of varying opinions and I was addressing what you wrote.

That said, I was tempted to delete your link, only because links to other websites not about IWC watches aren't within the standards of this forum. But I didn't want to censor what you wrote --so let's let it stand where it is. Any further replies should be offline.

Michael

Let alone the fact of immitation!

Most Rolex watches we see everyday are BIG TIME fakes! Personally I do not like to wear such a common watch.

cheers

A watch is much more than its movement

I did not buy the movement but the Portuguese watch with all its attributes. Of course I like the movement very much. But that's not everything. Even a Grand Complication is based on a Valjoux 7750!
And I'll buy the new Pilot's Chrono as soon as I can with a 7750 based (non-inhouse) movement as well. But there's a lot of manufacturing by IWC inside this movement. In the original sense of the word: "manu factum" which means "hand made".

Why do I buy this? Because of the watch and not of the prestige.

Regards,
Tilo

That's great...

Tilo,
that's great. I wrote IWC is my favourite brand but I have another expectations therefore I'm wearing Portuguese Automatic.

Best Regards
Mariusz