My first vintage IWC - Rare dial and case? Any info is welcome

fhs

OH My - Where to begin!

Before we get into this and give you more information, you said that the watch came with its ORIGINAL LUGS?? How? Had they been cut off before the bracelet was soldered on to the case?

Ben firstly, a great way to start your IWC vintage collection.

Nice Watch, case, Crown and dial all original (only the case modifide with that gold strap (non IWC) soldered directory into the case) and of course fitted with possibly the best ever mass produced automatic movement to come out of Switzerland

Maybe I'm biased (after all my Alias is 8541!)

Ben, I would highly recommend replacing the original lugs if you can find a competent goldsmith who can do it affordably.That should not be a problem here in The Netherlands.

dfgbh

Just a further possibility, Mark.

At that time were custom modifications possible.

I have seen some similar bracelets on other models.

So, it would be helpful to see a photo of the whole bracelet including the clasp.

Regards

HEBE

I have never seen "Schaffhausen" printed like that on any IWC watches (I am first to admit I am not that familiar with large swaths of their watches in the 70s and 80s). And the word "Automatic" has a capitalized "A" with all other letters in lower case. Is this font typical; rare? Just curious.

sdfgh

You hot hawks eyes haha. I didn't even thought about looking at the word automatic. I was thinking that this dial was redone or fake. So know we got already one confirmation about the originality of the dial and if we look at the history and owner of the watch, could this be a custom made? Money was not a issue. And if not can I find a record of this dial or in a catalog? I'm a very quick guy if it comes to research and know my way around, but this watch cracks my head.

Hi Mike,
I concur! With my limited knowledge, The Lower Case Automatic worried me as well as the SCHAFFHAUSEN script. This, in addition to the removed lugs caused my initial reaction, suspecting a repainted or non-original dial. Please 8541 educate us regarding your call of original dial.

Now that I see the bracelet and buckle in its entirety, it is really attractive.

sdfghj

Hi Benbenny
You have certainly brought up something interesting to analyze :-)
Regarding repainting, I suspect the black date surround window. I know it matches the hands, but it does not look right to me. I'm keen to hear from others out there, who know these models better than I do, what they think.

You have a very nice watch with a very interesting history indeed!

Welcome to the forum!

And congrats to a great intro by presenting a very uncommon watch. It's easy to date by the serial numbers and it can be double-checked with the known production period for the wonderful c 8541 and ref given inside the case back.

The dial however... My humble take is that it is a redial... I have never ever seen this style on any other example from this period. Especially "SCHAFFHAUSEN" and "Automatic" bathers me. But also the larger footprint.

I'm very intrested in following the continuation of this thread.

Best
/Anders

sdfg

see link below to a short clip how they print dials, the video shows how Audemars Piquet and IWC make and print their logo's with the above mentioned balloon technique.
AP & IWC dial printing
see also
Balloon dial printing technique

Ben Hi,

Whilst today, IWC are moving more and more manufacturing in-house, and in fact even realise the bulk of the case manufacture, this was most certainly not the practice 10+ years ago.

In those days (like still today) the manufacture of the dials was outsourced to specialized companies. Sometimes a single supplier could not meet volumes and/or for other reasons (probably a cheaper offer from a competing dial manufacturer)the same watch was produced using dials from different sources. And YES - there are many examples where the individual dial manufacturer used a slightly different font type and/or layout on the dial.

In some cases, and especially so during the "difficult years" we have seen examples where IWC pieces have come into circulation, which even had the prototype dials and hands etc. Also, as a matter of routine, dials and hands were often replaced during service overalls if the watchmaker deemed the dial to be tarnished. There was (and btw even today) is NO GUARANTEE that they replace it with a 100% same dial from the same manufacturer.

My opinion (and it's only that - and open to dispute) is that your dial and hands are "genuine IWC". I based my call on the fact that overall the watch is in pretty good condition (and clearly it was well looked after - even the original lugs were maintained). So there was no reason to replace the dial and if it had been done as a customization by the original owner - then he would have maintained the original dial too. Generally, one can easily spot a redial, as the quality is no where neat the original. Here, the quality looks spot on!

The only thing that I had picked up on - was the lack of the word SWISS at the bottom of the dial. But then, there are other watches from the same period that do not have it either (or it's there, but small and buried under the ridge which we cant see in the photos).

If this was my watch, I'd have a competent goldsmith replace the original lugs, sell that gold bracelet for the gold value and use those funds to fund a trip for the watch back to Switzerland for a SPA treatment by the Wizards of Schaffhausen- and if it comes back with a quotation for a new replacement dial - it's your call.

Well done, Mark! Despite my earlier reservations your reasoning seems sound.

Thank You Mark!
There is something to be learned every day.

sdfgh