My first vintage IWC - Rare dial and case? Any info is welcome

sdfgh

Ben, Whilst I am sure MF or others will confirm this - I can say with full confidence that most certainly that in those days, IWC followed suite as most other manufacturers did/do too - and had /have the dial manufacturer outsourced.

In fact, for over a century this has been and remains a stalwart of the Swiss haute horologie - myriads of highly specialized manufacturers, from cases, to screws, from "jewels" to incablock assemblies! ...and of course dials.

Today, IWC manufacture significantly more of their own movements entirely built in house, as they do their cases. I've had the privilege to have seen most of their manufacturing departments - including having met the team behind the highly specialized layout and printing of the individual "star heavens" for the Siderale time dials on the rear of the watch (yes - done in-house using high tech processes like pad printing etc. However, these dials are exceptional individual pieces (as are an occasional adding of texts or a motif to an existing dial, and not the norm.

sdfghn

Interesting discussion!

To me the dial does look like a redial. The font of Schafhaussen is strange and most of all the font of 'automatic ' and the A is a capital. I don't think I've seen this more often.

But I could be wrong.

Attaching lugs to an exciting dial is difficult I guess??

The dial artwork being raised is not an indicator to originality, every faux enamel dial from this period owns that characteristic, though variants with fine scripted signatures only ever arrive with SWISS marked dials and non SWISS marked dials have great difficulty in acheiving a fine signature...

What seems certain is the watch was messed with..enough to warrant a non specc'd crystal

Indeed. IWC has never produced front dials. It also did not produce cases until the late 1970s with some Porsche Design models.

I should add that I've see some dials like this only from IWCs in the UK market. I've always suspected they were produced in the UK and the watches were assembled there.

I agree with MF, both types in 18kt would at certain points in time been seen to be very special order, enough examples in gold have been noted (i think i remember Adrian posting a similar dial many moons ago) for the type to warrant some evaluation to it being more than semi-offical and could ponder an observer to think somebody had just the style of stamp but not the corresponding automatic match-up.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beautiful-Gold-Wristwatch-by-IWC-/231431225942?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276

Unfortunately the original picture is not in this thread any longer but surmise it to be the stunt double to the one in question in this thread and a reader will be on track..

www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/15476/?page=1

Merry Christmas!

Here's a c8541 movement with a similar dial, currently available at a well known auction site. The "left side" numerials are oriented in "the other direction" but the scripts, especially "Schaffhausen" and "Automatic" are looking as expected.

Best
/Anders

Well the when you show looks like an genuine to me. The first posted watch shows a different script and has an A in automatic that is larger then the other capitals. So to me the first post watch shows different.

sdfg

sdfgh

Thank you oneredtrim. This is now the first and only example seen so far with the script International Watch Co in exact the same style. But this watch dates from the 1930's??

It's not the first time it's been seen Ben (www.iwc.com/forum/en/discussion/15476/?page=1)

Seen it 20 times in the flesh in differing degrees of distress, such that it's hard to see anybody having this redial done, battering the watch about and then trying to weigh the lot in for gold price..in the early to late 90's...all in the uk. Be to do with the gold and final assembly.

I could'nt prove this dial below was'nt re-done but i've seen it in an 18kt 666 that was completely blemish free in it's entirety (a truely nos watch)..it was also devoid of the Ing nomenclature. It would'nt be such a stretch to imagine an up-grade may well have been available out of factory with the faux enamel being the up-grade over and above the signature (at service point-once the faux enamel variant become available/not sure they were doing the rounds pre'60)..the fact that most collectors today perhaps would'nt see it (the up-grade) that way around is by the by.

www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-VINTAGE-IWC-INGENIEUR-666AD-AUTOMATIC-CAL-8521-DIAL-REPAINTED-1950s-/181580272368?pt=Wristwatches&hash=item2a470712f0#ht_328wt_1128

Steel case...if it's not been switched out then it's the first i've seen....you live and you learn.

Bens watch would certainly need some explaining if the packaged lugs had been lost.

With regard to the non ingenieur 666, i think a forum member owns a little used gold non ingenieur 866, which is very correct....discovering how this came to be is not so easy, the watch went back to Schaffhausen (i believe) and they scratched thier heads. For someone not to scratch thier heads they would need to be there on the day, if the big boss man at a prop making factory decided to treat himself in 68 and it was no longer in his thinking that he started life in the ingenieurs shop...then ordering a watch befitting his station would be somewhat logical...to him, the piper payer.

Turning up in all kind of cases nowadays, though this variant with a gold snap-on back married to a steel middle ..smells suspiciously like someone's weighed-in the case middle ($300)...not a bad ten minutes work if a profit on the watch is also acheived.

www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=1708329&image=797616360&images=797616360,797616367,797616370,797616375,797616380,797616386,797616389&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

Ive seen this watch for sale on ebay.
Anybody an idea about value? I need to now how much my max bid will be.
ebay auction link to this IWC