My new Inge 666......

Soft iron isn't iron, but rather a special amagnetic compound (just like German silver isn't really silver --go figure).

I asked you a fair and honest question. I understand that you feel the dial is of poor quality.

and i answered you fairly and honestly, if you understand (like you say you do above) then No real need for me to wax-on about something that does'nt matter...you've got a wearer on the back of a punt, well done and once again thanks for showing.

Ps Take the dial off and get it into a decent art restorers and let them have a do with a mini ear bud and some spit (i kid you not)..you might get a result for a low outlay.

OK fine. And I like the mini ear bud idea.

Can you tell me what you feel are the one or two major flaws that contribute to this dial being of poor quality. No offense taken at all and I'm very happy with this watch for the price...I have no problem with you "waxing-on" a bit if it educates me. Is it the script in a particular area? The mess around the 12 O'Clock arrow indicator? I usually find imperfections in the minute markers in most re-dials and I find none in this watch. So I just want to know a bit more about how you view it. I am a recent collector, especially new in the 666 arena, and always like to listen to seasoned collectors.

best
Todd

Soft iron is iron - Fe - with a very low Carbon - C - content. It is easily magnetized, and loses the magnetization when no longer exposed to the magnetizing source.
Soft iron is also easily oxidized - rust - especially when also exposed to moisture.
Iron with a high level of Carbon content is steel, which is easily magnetized but stays magnetized after the magneting source is no longer present.
Steel, is less susceptible to oxidation, especially when other elements, e.g. chromium, are added, and then we call it Sainless Steel.

To my knowledge, steel is not used for dials; except in special instances( like soft iron) brass is.

That is correct, brass, an alloy of Copper and Zinc, is a good material for dials. Gold would even be better, if cost were not an issue.
Steel is an innappropriate material for dials, especially if the watch is to have amagnetic properties. Once magnetized, steel does not lose magnetization spontaneously, as does Iron, Fe)
As we all know, Stainless Steel is appropriate for cases as it is resistant to oxidation, and harder than Iron. Increasing the amount of Carbon makes the steel harder but has the drawback of rendering it brittle.
This Ref 666A from 1956 has a brass dial, and a disk of soft iron between the dial and the cal 852 movement, to complete the Faraday cage.

I actually think this dial is likely original. The printing looks the same to me as other original variants from a quality perspective, and the "Swiss Made" and dots of lume look original (though obviously old).

I actually think this dial is likely original. The printing looks the same to me as other original variants from a quality perspective, and the "Swiss Made" and dots of lume look original (though obviously old). [/QUOTE]

Are you saying 'Swiss Made' is factory original David? I know of the black re-dial pic'd in your article but was never aware the type had been written down for being factory.

Are you saying 'Swiss Made' is factory original David? I know of the black re-dial pic'd in your article but was never aware the type had been written down for being factory.[/QUOTE]

For many dials, it's difficult to provide any definitive answer as to what's a factory original and what's a very good re-dial. After all, even if every detail matches a catalog image or known original, it could still be a very good re-dial. Here, the dial's poor condition is one clue it's original -- it looks its age. Further, the scripted "International Watch Co." is well done, with proper detail and fineness of print. This is difficult to pull off with re-dials. If this is a re-dial it's a good one. Likewise, the luminous "dots" around the hour markers "look" original and are often very sloppy on re-dials or simply omitted. You are right that most Ingenieur dials of this period used "Swiss" or "T Swiss T" but I believe "Swiss Made" was also used. Also, IWC used various dial suppliers and consistency wasn't necessary a hallmark of this era. And any re-dialer who would include "Swiss" or "Swiss Made" could replicate precisely what was on the original dial, so the precise term isn't a "smoking gun."

Semantics I know, but . . . Iron with a high carbon content can still be Iron - certain irons that are used for high friction or high vibration applications such as engine cylinders or plumbers blocks have carbon content 10 - 20 times higher than that of mild steel (around the .3% mark) as the carbon acts as a lubricant / reduces friction and also absorbs impact - Gray Iron is such an example with carbon up to 4% .

Anyway, we are way off topic here, the new Inge 666 is a great find. Me personally would be sending it off for a spa treatment and an authentic IWC dial job, that would leave you with a pristine, authentic 666 AD on a bracelet - truly something many of us would be happy to have in the collection!

Cheers,

Ben

[/QUOTE]
Anyway, we are way off topic here, the new Inge 666 is a great find. Me personally would be sending it off for a spa treatment and an authentic IWC dial job, that would leave you with a pristine, authentic 666 AD on a bracelet - truly something many of us would be happy to have in the collection!

Cheers,

Ben[/QUOTE]
+1

For many dials, it's difficult to provide any definitive answer as to what's a factory original and what's a very good re-dial. After all, even if every detail matches a catalog image or known original, it could still be a very good re-dial. Here, the dial's poor condition is one clue it's original -- it looks its age. Further, the scripted "International Watch Co." is well done, with proper detail and fineness of print. This is difficult to pull off with re-dials. If this is a re-dial it's a good one. Likewise, the luminous "dots" around the hour markers "look" original and are often very sloppy on re-dials or simply omitted. You are right that most Ingenieur dials of this period used "Swiss" or "T Swiss T" but I believe "Swiss Made" was also used. Also, IWC used various dial suppliers and consistency wasn't necessary a hallmark of this era. And any re-dialer who would include "Swiss" or "Swiss Made" could replicate precisely what was on the original dial, so the precise term isn't a "smoking gun."

You'll have to forgive me David i was presuming when you said the o/p's lot was consistant with others...that there would be others.My apologies.

Is there any point in the history of Schaffhausen when they've used a similar 'INGENIEUR' signature on a original 666 dial?

     [/QUOTE]

David and Ben,

I may have located a silver sunburst dial with calatrava style slash and dot indices.

I'll start a new thread w/pics if I swap dials.

Thanks
Todd

And thanks everyone involved in the parallel soft iron discussion...

So much knowledge hanging around here - I enjoy it very much!

I have located a NOS silver sunburst dial w/Calatrava slash-dot indices.

The seller is well known to myself and another IWC collector who occasionally posts here and has been collecting Inges for about thirty years, and has become a friend.

Anyway this seller is European, a bit older, in his mid-seventies I believe and has been respected in the world of IWC collecting for several decades. His English is OK but I believe he only posts in the German forums.

Anyway, he has offered 250 euro for my original ratty sunburst dial and has strongly advised me to NOT have it reprinted.

Because he is unknown to the forum and I am a relatively new and ignorant collector I imagine that those reading this may be somewhat dismissive of his opinion. But please, no flames, I'm just trying to provide some more info here...

In any event, he told me that the dial is indeed original and that the "Swiss Made" on the bottom of the dial is uncommon but definitely a factory marking.

I'm going to hang on to the old dial and perhaps have someone attempt a delicate cleaning (thanks One Red Trim) and will start a new thread when I re-dial this 666. I will also be able to get some macro pics of both dials at that time.

Many thanks to everyone who replied to this thread and added to my education.

cheers,
Todd

And here is a pic of the new dial which shall soon grace the 666. I also purchased a datewheel and hands. Of course I will save all the old parts.

Todd, your killing me here!

Great find after your first Golden beauty earlier this year (of which we all eagerly await the "After Spa" photo's).

The bracelet is great too.

Nice collection of Inge's you are building up there!

Congrats.

Mark,

Thanks man. I really love this new ss 666 and have worn it every day since I got it, kind of like a little kid. It appears to run consistently 6 sec/day fast.

I may send it off to IWC for an archival extract but I don't know if I want to part with it for too long. Maybe when my refurbed 18K comes home. Also, IWC is asking $300 for the extract.

Will keep you posted and thanks again for the kind words. I should have a new dial, datewheel and hands installed within the next 4 weeks and will post more pics at that time.

best
Todd

Because he is unknown to the forum and I am a relatively new and ignorant collector I imagine that those reading this may be somewhat dismissive of his opinion. But please, no flames, I'm just trying to provide some more info here...

In any event, he told me that the dial is indeed original and that the "Swiss Made" on the bottom of the dial is uncommon but definitely a factory marking.

If you are trying to provide info Todd then perhaps you could ask Mr X if Schaffhausen only ever used the non documentable Swiss Made dials in conjuction with a non factory known Ingenieur signature...like the after market re-diallers do.

Dear ORT,

Sorry, but I can guarantee in advance that he will tell me that the Ingenieur signature is factory known. Although if I ask him gently and he is in a patient mood he may supply a pic of the same signature from something in his collection. But I don't know if that would convince you.

Maybe some one else on the forum can weigh in with regards to the "Ingenieur" signature?
Question: If I were to send this dial to Schaffhausen would they authenticate it for me? Would there be any circumstances in which they would confiscate it citing a "counterfeit" dial or something like that?

I may in the future send this watch back to Schaffhausen for an archival extract. Maybe I can send them a dial or two for authentication at the same time?

And is this the only feature of the dial which you found to be of "poor quality" beyond the obvious poor condition? You never answered that one.

As always, thanks so much for your interest...

Todd,
For what it's worth, I completely agree with Catherine; the dial currently on this watch is an old re-paint.
Best,
Ian.

Ian,
Thanks for the opinion.
cheers
Todd

Dear Ian,
I sat down tonight and took a harder look at the "Ingenieur" imprint and must agree with you and Catherine that it looks pretty poorly done. When I first looked at it, it just seemed merely different and perhaps the hallmark of yet another dial sub-contractor. But tonight I really studied it pretty carefully and found inconsistencies in the lettering as well as the letter "u" being tilted. The "N"s and "E"s are also poorly done and don't match their partners.

So yeah, after sitting down, cleaning my glasses and setting my loupe to 10X I was able to see what you guys were seeing. I'm fairly new to this and really need to hone my observational skills. Thankfully I bought this watch for the case, bracelet and movement and am happy with the purchase price.

I will post a new thread in a month after I put a fresh IWC replacement dial, datewheel and hands on it.

And of course, I always enjoy our civil discourse.

warm regards,
Todd