New Spitfire 3878 - freezing with "flyback"

HI, I am the proud owner of a new 3878-02.
Recently I played with the Chrono / Flyback function, since this is not something I would use... excuse me if I am to in detail, but I would like for someone to give my an accurate answer :)
The following happens on engaging the Flyback button (not everytime though):
the chrono dail jumps back to starting position with the whole movement freezing... e.g. the red seconds dail AND chrono. The red seconds dail AND chrono will start again on further (several) depressions of the Flyback button .... with the delay in "starting" the movement resulting in physical time loss.
My local AD has just closed for renovations after picking the watch up, thus I am stuck with it untill mid-Nov when they reopen, so to all the experts out there, please diagnose! Otherwise the watch is running smoothly gaining 2-4 secs per day depending on wear/rest.
Any response will be greatly appreciated!

Please ask/comment if I am not as clear as I tried to be!!!
Thanx

Hi, welcome to the forum. Two things I can think of:

a. I have no experienced with Calibre 89365 which is in your ref 3878 - but it is a further modified calibre 89360/1 - and with the calibre 89360, the chronograph function needed a bit of time to 'break-in' - before running smoothly - in my case it was a few weeks for both watches. I am just extrapolating and guessing here...

b. perhaps it is not a 'break-in' issue, but a quality problem - if that is the case give it back to your AD to be sent to your regional service center ?

hope this helps and hope your problem fixes itself at the earliest juncture !

My fingers are crossed for "a"
... but ...
seeing life in either black or white, I am very affraid of "b"
This is where I am looking for IWC-BigBoys to put my mind at ease on whether there is such a thing as a break-in phase, or is this a question mark on the movement?

Hi Watchjunkie,
Congratulations on your purchase..You have one of the few chronographs in the world with an original movement,designed and manufactured from scratch by its Swiss producer.
That said, you unfortunately need to return it to them for a slight adjustment.
Although 'break-in periods' can sometimes apply to the regulation of new watches, they do not apply to the additional functions.
A chronograph,by definition,records time intervals without influencing the time display/keeping of a watch. Otherwise it is just a stop-watch.
Leo

Thanx Leo.
You confirmed my suspicions.. but I missed the 'unlike' button under your comment.
Two thumbs down for knowing I will be without my watch :)

Dear Watchjunkie,
I have also recently purchased a new Spitfire Chrono in August 2012 from the IWC Zurich boutique. When using the fly-back function, the whole watch movement occasionally freezes. If I then gave the watch a solid tap, the watch movement will start again. The problem is, in effect, identical to yours.
I have sent the watch back to IWC to see if they can eliminate this problem. If IWC cannot ensure that the fly-back function never causes the movement to freeze , the watch is, of course, unusable.
I fully understand that these sorts of problems can arise in a new model but I understood that the movement was well tried and tested. (I always avoid a brand new movement designs because I want to be sure that the movement has shown good reliability in the field.)
If the 89365-calibre is a well tried and tested movement, the fact that the same problem has hit two users at nearly the same time period, suggests that IWC needs to look into their quality control procedures.
However, if the fly-back function is a new feature, the repetition of the problem may suggest a basic design problem.
I am rather disappointed that, after some six weeks since I sent the brand new watch back to Switzerland, via IWC UK service center, I have not had any feedback from the factory. If it was my business, I would want to keep a customer like myself informed as to progress together with an estimate of when I might get my watch back. However, Swiss Watch manufacturers, unfortunately, have a well earned reputation for not being very good at keeping customers informed!

PS. While not a collector, I am fortunate to own some other watches, including a Blancpain fly-back chronograph. The movement is a F Piguet/Blancpain 1185 movement designed by M. Edmund Capt, one of the greatest watch engineers of the 20th century, who was also the designer of the Valjeux 7750. The 1185 was the first Swiss design to have a vertical clutch and, as a very high class movement, also includes a beautifully executed column wheel activator of the chronograph. M. Capt, made sure that the fly-back mechanism was very well designed and executed and I have never had any problems in using this function or indeed any other functions of the watch.

Hi JRSHAN,
Welcome and nice to hear from a fellow Spitfire owner!
Thanx for all your information! Strange though?
I am very interested in hearing the outcome of this issue,as I dont want to return my watch until early next year - travels and commitments that I want my watch for :)
I should however report that my issue has almost disappeared following continuous wear and checking for a couple of weeks.... break-in period as SHING suggested???
If there is any design or quality issues I would like to get this watch back to IWC immediately, seeing this is a first high end watch, and I feel the price tag is a bit stiff for a lemon.
All the best on a speedy, yet successful return from IWC!!
(and please keep me updated I will report back if I noted any further hick-ups though)
Chris

Leo is the service manager for IWC and others in London. I would not ignore his words.

Thanks for the tip.
However, I do not think that Leo has understood the problem that Watchjunkie and I have encountered. He says'A chronograph,by definition,records time intervals without influencing the time display/keeping of a watch.' Unfortunately, Watchjunkie and I find that when we use the fly-back function on the Spitfire 3878, occasionally the watch movement freezes. The whole watch stops - not just the stopwatch!
I am a pilot and I bought the Spitfire for a number of reasons including robustness and reliability but in particular for its fly-back function which is very useful feature for timing holding patterns - unfortunately a common requirement in flying these days. I must have a reliable watch that never freezes.
Hopefully IWC will be able to fix the watch so that it performs to its specifications.
PS. I do think that my other point about being completely in the dark as to what stage the repair of my watch has reached is equally important. I recently had a problem with my mobile phone and it was repaired under warranty. I received automated emails telling me when the phone had arrived at the repair station, when it was inspected and what problem(s) had been found, when it was estimated to be completed, when it was shipped back to me from the repair station together with online tracking details.
Why cannot Swiss quality watch makers invest in similar systems to reassure and inform customers as to what is happening to their brand new and very expensive watches undergoing warranty repairs?

What ever the problem and I understand what you say that the watch comes to a halt, just take it in to your AD, it will be sorted in due course. Most service centres will be able to deal with it without a trip back to the factory. Only certain models will require that as a matter of course, like repeaters and the very high end stuff or old models.

Dear Greg,
Thanks for your comment. ' Just take it in to your AD, it will be sorted in due course. Most service centers will be able to deal with it without a trip back to the factory. Only certain models will require that as a matter of course, like repeaters and the very high end stuff or old models.'
In general, I agree with you that often a local repair station can usually deal with common well understood problems and adjustments.
I would note, however, that, in my case, I was told by IWC UK that the watch would need to go back to the factory as a warranty repair. An intermittent fault of the sort that I (and Watchjunkie) have encountered is often difficult to trouble shoot and, with a brand new watch (and model),it is important to be satisfied that the 'repair/adjustment' is done to factory standards. Of course, I am still not sure to what extent the fly-back function is a new feature on this movement. If it is, the factory will no doubt want to investigate whether the movement design or the manufacturing quality controls or both are satisfactory.

For the life time that this great company exist, there should be a way for a customer to follow up on a 'repair' job? Maybe some of the more experienced users could shed some light on this?
I see it shameful having to 'repair' a new watch though.

Hi guys,
Greg's list of "trip back to the factory" repairs is correct but there is another instance when Factory Only repairs are necessary:
IWC,like most other Manufactures, has a system in place to actively monitor,repair or improve as necessary all new models.
As JRSHAN correctly noted "the factory will no doubt want to investigate whether the movement design or the manufacturing quality controls or both are satisfactory
Whether the movement or case or both are new, watch repairs within the first year of release must be returned to the factory and cannot be repaired locally.
This process can,initally,take a little time but will result in the owner having an IWC that is reliable and accurate for lifetimes to come when kept regularly serviced.
Obviously I can only offer my knowledge on the technical side of repairs but I hope I have eased your concerns as to why your watch went to Schaffhausen so early in it's lifetime and was not dealt with locally.
Leo

Leo, thanx again for your input, it is really appreciated!
I am just delaying the inevitable (... and hoping for a miracle)

Hi everyone.
I purchased a new Spitfire Chronograph in August 2012.
From the start, it had an intermittent problem with the fly back function, whereby the watch would freeze/stop about every 20 times the fly back function was used.
I noticed on this forum, that another new owner of the same model watch was having an identical problem to me. As very few of these watches were out in the field at the time, it seemed to me that this indicated that IWC either had a quality control problem or the design of the fly back was inadequate.
I sent the watch back to the factory in early September 2012 to get it repaired.
The watch was 'repaired' and sent back to me in December 2012. I would note that I did not get any documentation from the factory with the returned watch which described what had been done to fix the problem.
In the event, I immediately found, on trying out the watch, that the problem had not been fixed and, accordingly,I sent the watch back to the Factory in January, 2013.
This time, IWC looked at the watch more carefully, replaced the movement with a new one, and ran extensive tests to ensure that the fly back function (and the rest of the watch) was working properly.
I have now finally received back my watch today, 22 May 2013 after about 8 months from the time it was originally sent back to the Factory!
I am pleased to report that, thankfully, the fly back function now seems to work perfectly. In addition, the new movement's chronograph push button actions are much better in feel than those in the original movement.
This whole saga shows how important it is for manufacturers to ensure that factory quality control procedures are as good as they can be and that factory repair departments are equally of the highest quality. Both were unsatisfactory in this case!
The huge cost of repairing watches in these circumstances, the inconvenience to the customer and the inevitable danger of brand damage must be obvious to everyone. I hope that IWC will have learnt from all this.
I would add that the feed back from the factory as to what was going on and where the watch was in the repair cycle was patchy at best for much of the time. Feedback improved in the last few months but IWC (and other watch manufacturers) could learn from online suppliers like Amazon as to how to keep customers informed as to the status of their watch repairs. An investment in this area of their business would be, in my view, money well spent.
Hopefully, I can now look forward to long and trouble free use of what, when it works, is a very fine pilot's watch.

Your're right JRSHAN.it is frustrating to have these issues present themselves with not only a new watch,but a newly designed one. it may be an interesting exercise to see what comments prevail on other top brand forums,and then realise that we are not alone.But despite the brand trials and tribulations,I think that IWC is customer proactive through it's forum;after all,IWC initiated the forum.I know of no other watch company who has done the same.Kenneth.

JRSHAN, strange.. but your description of your Spitfire's issues and purchase time is almost exactly the same as my story! I have not had mine sent back yet, as the AD seems to think there is nothing wrong with it and the service centre is quite far from where I live. Was there an explanation as to what caused the issue? Interesting that you mention the motion of the pushers feel better since mine is a bit 'clicky'. Since day to day time keeping is not affected and I rearly use the Chrono.. if the problem was not serious I'm hoping to keep it ticking on my wrist rather than in transport.