Q: What's the "right" number for limited editions?

There has to be a point

There has to be a point at which a limited edition steps over the production line and is not truly limited. And there has to be a point to a limited edition. And there has to be a market. WIthout all 3, then it's an ego rash.

I read recently about a Japanese department store that sold a limited edition of 300 Omega Speedmasters. Outside of a white dial, there was nothing that said limited edition or numbered the edition or "marked" the watch as anything special other than a special order. But it was perfect for the market. Japanese watch afficionados (and their international brethren) jumped all over the watch because it was limited even without any identification, but the secondary market has not been kind to these watches.

Some watches are limited to very small numbers because they have significance (Tag/McLaren) or the materials are very difficult to produce (Jaquet Droz Paillonnee) and others have significance in their numbers (Cousteau).

So if IWC were thinking of a limited edition, there would have to be more questions asked before a number could be determined.

I think the opinions expressed by many today constitute the basics of a good marketing discussion.

One of the interesting side notes of the manufacturer who did the limited edition of 200 was that the watches were sold directly from the manufacturer to the collector. Speaking to a couple of dealers, they felt "cut out" of the equation.

However, the buzz that the watch generated was huge in the collector community. Owning one became a badge of honor among collectors, so to speak.

Larry

I think the Cousteau was handled well...>>

1. It was not a 'blinged up' version of the base watch.
2. The changes from the base watch were substantive and attractive...
3. ...but also modest enough that the watch was a very resonable price.
4. The edition celebrated something which seemed real and unique. I don't expect to see a Hans and Lotte Hass or Auguste Picard version soon.
5. The numbers were about right. A collector would need to get his order in quickly if wanted to be sure of getting one, but they were available.

I think other limited editions may not have been handled as well. The only problem with the Port 2000 is that it was a one off. For a number of years there was no regular model representing the 2000's design, and even now the Port Auto represents something different from the 2000.

I can understand there may have been technical reasons for restricting the 2000's numbers, though. Introducing a brand new movement in regular production quantities might have been a nerve-wracking business.

1224 or 2412 sounds reasonable to me (nt)

Which watch are you talking about here?

Your text is as follows:

"The special engraved collector's edition watch at 200 was a marketing coup. Their collectors (and I am one) were very proud to be part of a very small circle of die-hard enthusiasts, hand picked by the brand president himself. More than 200 and it would have polluted the significance, perhaps even 100 would have heightened the experience."

What watch are you talking about?

Cheers from the cellar

It depends on the Watch.....

Hello
It all depends on the Watch.A high end complication could legitimately be limited to only FIVE .Where as a variant of a "mass " produced ( in the hand made sense) ordinary watch might tollerate FIVE THOUSAND. For example-there are a lot of MK XI 's ,but they still are eagerly sought after! But one proviso-the Number X of Y , should be clearly displayed on the case.
But I also think the number of Limited Editions should be limited, to perhaps only ONE per year-so that the Idea of Limited Editions doesn't get diluted!
Just my thoughts- Louis.

nice post

that one was a special edition Panerai (nt)

A nice prize

To me it means something special, a 1993 portoguese
I decided to read some of the already posted messages to try organize my ideas but also to better understand the others opinion.

To me there are “limited edition” that are very special; movement, case material and functions must have something different, something you do not normally expect and surprise you. I’m talking about Destriero, Portuguese 1993, Da Vinci so amazing technical creation but “just for looking” watches.
Due to the high prices and the low numbers, you can still collect these but in the form of pictures, articles and sound (minute repeater).

Members of a forum are not just “customers” for IWC, we read articles, exchange ideas and pictures; this is something attractive for us that we enjoy doing. I like the idea that collectors are the witness of its history, tradition and life style.
A watch just for forum members, would be a very nice prize for our constant interest in the company but it should have something special, different from the others version available on the market and with an identification of the member.
I do not know the number of forum members so it is difficult to say. Probably 100 pieces should be enough.

P.S. It was intersting to read posted messages, other members opinion is not so different.

the defintion of LIMITED EDITION ...

Hello Michael,

I know my response does not precisely answer the question you posed. However, in my humble opinion, the following story illustrates and defines the meaning of "limited editions".

Many years ago a wealthy client, who had past connections with IWC as one of their distributors, wanted to treat his sons in the financial industry with two special IWC timepieces. They took an exceptional liking to the "Four Seasons" edition of the legendary IWC DaVinci Perpetual and their old man would leave no stone unturned to obtain such for his successful sons.

(The "Four Seasons" DaVinci has a special hand engraved dial depicting the different seasons of the calendar year. I don't recall now the exact numbers produced but they were less than 24 pieces and all sold out years ago)

Needless to say, the father was willing to pay a premium price to get these watches and so he asked me to assist him. We searched high and low but to no avail. He then wondered if we could order only the special dials and refit normal DaVinci watches with them. The factory informed me that even replacement dials were not available anymore. The feisty father, in his high 80's, was still not convinced and made a very special offer to the IWC factory. He was willing to pay extra for manufacturing two custom made hand-engraved "Four Seasons" dials even if it cost him THOUSANDS of DOLLARS!

As these negotiations evolved over many weeks and the outcome was nervously awaited I advised my client that his chances for acquiring the requested timepieces for his beloved sons are very slim. Nevertheless, the patriarch businessman did not quite give up hope.

Finally, the answer came from IWC Schaffhausen that, under no circumstances, these special dials would NEVER be recreated and manufactured again since it would be unfair (to existing collector customers) to override what had been sold previously as a certain numbered limited edition.

THIS IWC STORY CERTAINLY SUPPORTS THE MEANING OF "LIMITED EDITION" TIMEPIECES.

Regards,

Jack Freedman

the defintion of LIMITED EDITION ...

Great story.Such statements from the factory underline what collectors of limited pieces want : do never expand a limited series,even if you can sell quickly.You would disceive the collectors of your brand.Bravo IWC.
Adrian.

tMay I convey my deepest respect for IWC

Thank you for posting this story.
IWC's response makes me proud being an IWC-fan.
Doing business like this says something about the people in IWC. Compliments.

500 or less would be my ideal #

for a "limited edition" piece, but preferably 100 or less.

Otherwise, I think watch companies should just use the term "special" edition.

just my 2 cents,
Anthony

Also known as the PAM195 (nt)

.

500-1000 in the world 100 in Japan(nt

Thanks ..

anrits and MF. I did a search and there seems to be a lot of "limited" edition Panerai watches. Let's hope this is not the path IWC pursue.

Cheers from the cellar

Devils advocat.

The parallel is not 100% but sometimes a case could be made for extending the limited series. Cars for example. Both the 959 and the Enzo have been made in series that were larger than what was originally intended and promised to the first buyers. The respective manufacturers made the additional cars because the prices on the secondary market became so grossly inflated and too many of their buyers were not "real" enthusiasts but merely speculative buyers wanting to make a quick buck.
Nevertheles I think that IWC was 100% correct in refusing this unusual demand.

JCB