• Apprentice
    17 May 2023, 10:46 a.m.

    Hi David,

    Thank you for the advice, your input is appreciated. I feel as though I am
    stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    I'd like to get the piece authenticated and learn about its background, I need
    to see if IWC will do this with the hands and dial removed. I'm looking for a
    good horologist to potentially carry out this work, if you can recommend
    anyone in the UK I'd appreciate it.

    If IWC won't authenticate without the dial and hands, then I feel that I have
    to go down the route of replacing the radium with Superluminova, as advised by
    Hebe earlier in the chat. Hoping that the levels of radiation are reduced
    enough for the authenticity process to be carried out.

    I would like to learn as much as I can about the watch, its inscriptions, the
    crown, and the journey that took it to France during the war. To do this I
    need IWC's input, but don't want to spoil the watch in the process.

    I'll present these questions to IWC and will also seek the advice of

    Thanks again,


  • Master
    17 May 2023, 10:43 p.m.

    Beware of DAVIDOLIVER. Although the advice may seem sound, it was generated by
    a chatbot, as evidenced by the first sentence:

    "If you are referring to "Beobachtungs-Uhren," which translates to
    Watches" in English, it depends on the specific circumstances and your
    personal preferences."

    If DAVIDOLIVER was a person, they would have seen the second image that was
    posted with "B-UHR" clearly engraved inside the caseback, and would not have
    questioned what you are referring to.

    It is interesting that these chatbots can engage in basic conversation, but
    still are not ready to analize images (at least for civilian purposes).

  • Apprentice
    18 May 2023, 9:01 a.m.

    Hi Ben,

    Thanks for pointing this out, is this an AI system that IWC have added?

    A conversation to have on another occasion, not appropriate in this forum.

    Best regards,


  • Master
    18 May 2023, 3:24 p.m.

    Why vandalise an original dial when its possible to have two ( dials)...

  • Master
    18 May 2023, 5:33 p.m.

    "Thanks for pointing this out, is this an AI system that IWC have added?"

    No, and unfortunately they are popping up more frequently these days. New
    forum software hopefully will be cutting down on this soon.

    As for Catherine's advice, I totally agree. I would keep it completely
    original and have it serviced by a local watchmaker who is capable and willing
    to work on it. If you do want a new lume, I would also agree with sending it
    back to Schaffhausen without the dial and hands to see if they could be
    replaced. But do hold onto those original hands and dial

  • Apprentice
    18 May 2023, 6:47 p.m.

    I'll follow your advice, as long as you can confirm that you aren't a chat

    Many thanks,


  • Master
    19 May 2023, 2:12 a.m.

    Cheers Stewart;)

    And please do keep us updated on your progress, It is always fantastic to see
    these historical pieces revived!

  • Apprentice
    23 May 2023, 9:36 a.m.

    Good morning Bryce June,

    I will follow your advice, and thank you for your input. The watch hands and
    dial aren't damaged, but unfortunately time has taken its toll.

    Kind regards,


  • Apprentice
    5 Jun 2023, 9:12 a.m.

    On Saturday I met up with a horologist, who had a good look at the watch. His advice, do nothing to the watch.

    He had a good look and is sure that it is authentic, in his words you can't counterfeit aging and the watch doesn't have any obvious marks that alterations may have made. He is looking into options for authentification process.

    I got to have a good look at the movement, see attached.

    Kind regards,


  • Master
    5 Jun 2023, 5:53 p.m.

    Stewart, I like your friend's advice. The watch does indeed appear authentic. And like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

  • Master
    5 Jun 2023, 6:22 p.m.

    Regarding the crown of your B-Uhr:

    As I responded in a previous post, it is a pocket watch crown.

    B-Uhren had two different crowns that I am aware of and there might be others too!

    The reason is say you should try replace the crown with a correct one will enhance the authenticity of the Watch and also, if you decide to wear the watch, which should be safe to wear for short times once the crystal is replaced. The existing PW crown will allow moisture and humidity to penetrate while wearing.

    If you choose to keep the B-Uhr as a display piece, do nothing. But a new crystal will enhance the appearance markedly.

    It is entirely your choice too, because the B-Uhr looks fantastically aged by the yellowed crystal, which must be very brittle by now.

  • Connoisseur
    5 Jun 2023, 7:47 p.m.

    According to my personal knowledge with Ref 431 B Uhr, I am very confident that the crown on your watch is not authentic!

    In one of the posts you can see the two authentic crown versions for this type of watch.

    Good luck with the search for a proper authentic crown!

    Greetings Martin

  • Apprentice
    6 Jun 2023, 8:24 a.m.

    Thank you Ben, Mark and Martin, I value your input and experience.

    Mark, thank you for the advice re the PW crown and humidity, I will follow this up and try to source a replacement crown. I'm torn regarding the crystal, I appreciate what a new crystal would do for appearance and can see good reasons for change. I also appreciate that the current crystal has seen things throughout its life that makes it quite unique, replacing the crystal could be similar to taking my grandmother for a facelift. When the horologist first saw the watch on Saturday, his eyes lit up and he kept saying that you can't fake aging, the look in his eyes has stuck with me. I'm not in any rush and will continue to weigh up options.

    Any tips on where I might look for a crown, would be gratefully received.

    Thank you again for your input, I'm loving the journey.


  • Apprentice
    20 Jul 2023, 5:54 p.m.

    I'm sorry, but i am failing to see the relevance.

    Kind regards,


  • Master
    20 Jul 2023, 6:02 p.m.

    The previous response is from an AI Bot, advertising some sort of service or other.

  • Apprentice
    17 Aug 2023, 10:07 p.m.

    I like your friend's advice. The watch does indeed appear authentic. And like they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

    Best regards

  • Apprentice
    21 Aug 2023, 2:46 a.m.

    I am of the firm opinion that altering the dial or hands is unnecessary and undesirable. I kindly urge you to refrain from making any changes in this regard.

    As far as I understand, Swiss law mandates the removal of high radiation levels from old watches, and it seems that IWC's servicing approach adheres to this regulation. However, I strongly believe that allowing such alterations would be an unfortunate decision. Instead, I recommend seeking a service provider who will maintain the watch without replacing its finest components.

    While I acknowledge that this is a subjective viewpoint, I am inclined to believe that a majority of dedicated collectors would share this sentiment.

    Wishing you the best of luck with your decision.