Should all Ingenieurs be amagnetic?

IWC seems to have deviated from the quintessential quality of the original Ingenieur concept - its capacity to withstand the influence of strong magnetic fields without loss of accuracy.
I acknowledge that many engineers work exclusively in their offices and the strongest magnetic field affecting their watches is the magnetic field generated by their mobile phones. In this case the capacity to withstand the magnetic field generated by an 80,000 Amps current at the distance of 1 meter is obviously overkill.
Also, many potential watch buyers could not care less about that, and may like the Ingenieur design, and also have a sapphire case back to admire the movement.
Be that as it may, should all Ingenieurs be amagnetic? What say you?

it is a complication that I would like to have in an Ingenieur certainly.

But I don't need them in all of my watches in the Ingenieurs line - the wear and design and movement or complication of them offsets the lack of a-magnetism for me, or the wear and design and movement or complication in some of them are chiefly the hallmarks in that watch I seek.

For me Inge should be amagnetic. I understand the reasons of IWC to have sapphire at the case back, besides "philosophy" of the line were changed from
'watches to scientists and ingenieurs" through "watches for adventurers" to current "watches for racers")) The line should improving and be apopted to modern trends. But for me would be more nice if the historical background will be kept.

Amagnetism was/is THE history, DNA and (ex-)sales argument of the Ingenieur family. Sure there are more Ingenieur watches sold as there are Ingenieur professionals wearing them, as there are more Aquatimers sold than there are Divers using them. For me, this feature was not an argument to buy my ME as I wanted to have the most rugged IWC watch I could get, in addition I got the "faraday" cage which allows me to place and wear the watch wherever I want without having to think about what might happen. Yes and no, there should be a choice for those who need the amagnetic feature and for those who just want it as part of the watches history but there should be as well the choice for those who simply admire the design and movement to get the "reduced" function. So, not all of them IMHO need to be amagentic but a good portion of them definitely should be.

I think most Ingenieurs should be antimagnetic but I have no problem deviating from this requirement. I have three Ingenieurs. Two are antimagnetic. The third was a watch (the DFB) which I liked and was willing to overlook the open back.
I bought a simple watch demagnetizer which I use about once a month on watches that are not antimagnetic. This $60 item solves the problem as far as I am concerned.

I think not all should be amagnetic but at least a few. In my opinion engineering also qualifies for the Ingenieur line. For example the Digital Day Date movement with semi-transparent dial would become too thick but is a magnificent piece of engineering.

Kind regards,

Clemens (proud owner of a 322701)

You can put display backs on all of the Da Vincis, Portofinos, Portuguesers you want, but watches ostensibly designed for a purpose should be fit for that purpose.

Or maybe I shouldn't take jewelry so seriously.

What next, Aquatimers that aren't even splash proof?

Although my only Ingenieur is the VC with a display back, I believe that a majority of Ingenieurs should be amagnetic. I was disappointed (just a little) that only one of the 2013 novelties (as far as I could determine) had a soft iron cage. I think it is essential part of the Ingenieur's genetics that I fear is going away. It would not be a deterrent for me purchasing an Inge design I really liked...but would be my preference over the display back.

Q: SHOULD ALL INGENIEURS BE AMAGNETIC?

A: Yes.

I think you're searching for your forum friend's complicity to get that watch you like! LOL!

Watches are fun, life's too short to resist to temptations...

I'm surprised you raised this, once again --so permit me to play devil's advocate.

If the original ref. 666 was called, instead, "The Amagnetic" then, yes, all future watches called that name should be amagnetic.

But it was not called that. It was called the Ingenieur --and I respectfully suggest that name, and its properties, were chosen back then for marketing reasons. Very people who bought the watch did test its amagnetic properties in real use. Very few people who bought the watch were engineers.

So the watch --then and now--has a marketing name. So much for purity for purity's sake, especially when it's linguistic.

There's a diving watch that, even though I don't own one, I think mechanically is a fine watch. It says "superlative chronometer officially certified". To me the words are meaningless, and at best a distraction. Probably even misleading given what I think of chronometer specs and testing. But I wouldn't let that, by itself, stop me from getting one. It is still an excellent watch and I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water.

The question "Should all Ingenieurs be amagnetic" could be accompanied by other questions like "by whom", "why" and "for whom".

The "by whom" is easy: nowhere is written that an Ingenieur should be amagnetic. There is no law of consequence or common law on this, maybe only some emotional feeling that it should, see below on this one.

The "why" is interesting. Initially the Ingenieur filled a need for people who, maybe professionally, came into contact with magnetic feelds. Thus, it was a tool watch for a relatively small group. For a larger group this need is not there anymore, I guess "Ingenieur" now stands for a ruggedised, sporty watch.

The "for whom" is interesting too: there you see diversity. For a smaller group of die-hards, maybe emotionally bound to the past, that want an amagnetic watch, and that also want a not too big watch, there is the new 40 mm Automatic. The only price to pay here is a non in-house movement, but in my opinion the 30110 is almost IWC, a great, robust and accurate movement. More in line with the luxury inclined target group of customers are all the other models, and here there is no need at all for an amagnetic watch. The need to see the beautiful movement is of far greater importance. And of course, the need to show an impressive watch of great quality and name.

If the question is asked to me, insignificant individual: an amagnetic watch is OK, as long as it runs well and looks great. Amagnetism is a bonus. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that my divers watch, the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, has an antimagnetic cage. More useful than to be able to dive below 1000 meters. All in all there is emotion involved, but there is no need to be consequent on a whole line of watches where both target groups and watches and their prices differ vastly.

Kind regards,
Paul

You raise an interesting point. What are the quintessentials of the Ingenieur line. My initial response was "definitely antimagnetic", probably followed by Pellaton. However, Michael's response made me think again. What separates an IWC Ingenieur from other watches?

This is what Larry Seiden et al. wrote in their article about the IWC Ingenieur: "The Ingenieur's genesis dates from 1944 when IWC hired a new technical director, Albert Pellaton. He was responsible for the creation of IWC's first automatic watch, the calibre 81 (subseconds at 6) and the calibre 85 (central seconds, flat overcoil) in 1950. The next generation, the calibre 852 (central seconds, Breguet overcoil) was the first automatic movement encased under a soft-iron core with the Ingenieur name. The Ingenieur was viewed by IWC as the automatic and civilian version of the famous Mark XI, a hand-wound antimagnetic classic whose fame and following grew as a modern pilot's watch. The Ingenieur is not a spectacular or sexy watch nor was its introduction in 1955 widely anticipated. Like the Mark XI, the Ingenieur is about function and the name translates literally to "engineer." However, because it was produced for the civilian market, the Ingenieur was offered in a variety of relatively elegant dial styles, as well as in 18kt and mixed (steel and gold) cases. Today the timeless design of the watch puts it in the "classic" category and is testimony that its appeal has outlasted its long reign as the flagship of the IWC line".

And: "The famous Ingenieur logo of the arrow passing through the name is reminiscent of the Swiss thunderbolt icon that warns of an electrical current's presence. In this case, the thunderbolt was chosen to represent the Ingenieur's anti-magnetic properties, i.e. the ability of its special soft iron shield construction to protect the watch against magnetic fields. The logo makes the watch easy to identify from other IWC automatics of the period and gives the watch its joie de vivre".

So the logo seems to represent antimagnetism as a discriminating feature. But then again, pilot watches were antimagnetic too.

Might it be better to define the watch as "A watch made by engineers for engineers?". This seems to be confirmed by Seiden et al: "The Ingenieur's desirability among today's collectors is difficult to explain, but its status as one of the earliest "tool" watches, combined with its rarity, technically advanced movement, and timeless design, make the Ingenieur something truly unique. The Ingenieur is also quite large for a vintage watch (36.5-37.2mm for pre-Jumbo Ingenieurs) and its heft (due in part to the soft iron casing) makes it quite a presence on the wrist"

All in all my personal conclusion is that antimagnetism is NOT a discriminating feature. The Ingenieur is an TOOL watch with advanced technical features, that may but does not need to include Antimagneticism.

Note: They refer to MF's article "THe IWC ingenieur: the incomplete history" but I could not quickly find that one unfortunately. Perhaps MF could share the link?

Thanks for asking the question!

Best wishes, Peter

Must all Ingenieurs be anti magnetic?

Must all Portuguese have pocket watch movements like the first one did? Must all Pilot series watches have black dials? Must all Aquatimers have certain amounts of water resistance?

Are pilot watches really intended only for pilots? Are Aquatimers really intended only for divers? Are Yacht Clubs really intended only for sailors?

Let's face it. Despite the emphasis on "tool watches" and "lifestyle" in IWC's (and other companies') marketing, today's mechanical watches are luxury goods whose use today usually has little to do with the lifestyle on which the marketing campaign is based.

Michael mentioned a well known Superlative Chronometer, probably one of the best selling models in the world for many many years, despite the fact that few owners ride on Submarines or even go diving or maybe even swimming. My example is the well known "Moon Watch". Anyone been to the moon lately?

Having some Ingenieurs with anti magnetic features is fine, and a nice nod to the history of the line. But having that as a "requirement" seems superfluous.

This is the link to MF's excellent - and must-read - article about the Ingenieur (from 1999):web.archive.org/web/20010619163055/http://www.timezone.com/WebPages/Features/PastTime/IWCsIngenieur

for those interested and missed requests for the link to this article last year.

And WhichWatch/Dick: well said!

Peter

What a fascinating thread gentlemen!

FWIW, I think it comes down to romance and whether one feels a watch should carry some or all of it's heritage in future generations. Personally I would love to see antimagnetic properties in modern Inges but that wouldn't be a catalyst in my decision to acquire one. It would be a factor, but not the only one.

Cheers,
Evan

Roberto nailed. :)
I admit that I am a purist regarding the Ingenieur, Aquatimer and Pilot lines. Recently, however, Andrew was kind and allowed me to have his VC Ingenieur Tribute to Italy for a couple of hour on my wrist. I must admit I was smitten by the design. Esthetically speaking the watch is perfect but, alas, it is not amagnetic. Since then I have been trying hard to find a rationalization I can live with, to search and acquire one.
No luck there. I think I will remain a purist and stick to amagnetic Ingenieurs.
Thanks to all who contributed.