Square gold Schaffhausen

I thought the same Roberto ;-) nt

tHE DIALS BE RE-DONE RICHARD

"Pardon the shouting capitals everybody "(that quiet melarky is well over-rated).

A17xx c.853 movement was'nt born in the late fifties Richard

Schaffhausen never produced/used a dial the stunt double of the variant you shown and the dial restorer left his/her fingerprint on it.

Lovely watch! The R/1359

scratched inside the case is very typical of marks put there by someone who serviced the watch at some point.

thanks for remembering not to shout in the future

....Even if you think being quiet is over-rated, I'd prefer to exercise my job as moderator and set what tone I think may be best. Your substantive contributions are often helpful.

I sincerely appreciate your consideration --and also if you have comments or replies here about ALL CAPS please e-mail me rather than posting.

Thank you,
Michael

I'm confused...

I'm confused at what you suggesting. What do you mean by:

"Schaffhausen never produced/used a dial the stunt double of the variant you shown and the dial restorer left his/her fingerprint on it."

Is the dial fake? Has it been restored? It looks pretty similar to the one in the old photograph...

Is the mechanism fake? If neither, when was the mechanism produced? Where is the fingerprint? I can see some striations on the left of the pendulum (if that is what you call it) but not a fingerprint as such.

Obviously I can't now ask my father what he had done to it if anything...

Thanks again.

'Slow the bus Richard"....

No the watch is not fake.

The movement serial number (17xxx) heavilly suggests a period of time post the date you gave for your father receiving the watch (late fifties). You may have mis-recalled and the time may have been half a decade further on, which will tally with the movement serial number but still it's a long way from the date the case was manafactured. Seeing that the dial was definately re-painted in it's life i'd guesstimate the watch may have had water breach the case and the movement was simply switched-out and the dial re-painted at that point.

a little more information...

It appears that the dial most likely was "refinished" at some time in the past by a person who specializes in restoring dials. The work here is good but some collectors prefer 100% factory authenticity, and a restored dial can reduce value on the resale market.

The movement is not a "fake". Based on the serial number was made in 1963. However, that raises two unsual considerations:

1. the movement number is recorded in IWC's books as a Calibre 8531, not an 853 (the 8531 has a date). Either the books are wrong or this movement was mismarked or changed.

2. the movement's number is way different than the case number --normally, they are much closer together --the case number, and the model style, implies a much earlier watch than 1963. That might mean a replacement movement --highly unusual, but not impossible.

I would send the movement and case numbers to IWC, and pay for an Extract from the Archives. See if the watch is listed with those case and movement numbers in IWC's records. You can find how to apply online in the "archive book" link below.

Good luck,
Michael

Thanks...

Catherine and MF. Thanks you both again for the extra info. I'm interested in finding out and will contact WC. It is strange that the movement and the case dates are some way apart. Maybe my father went swimming with the watch on!

A little more information please

I'd like to find out a little more about my watch. How much is an archival search? There doesn't seem to be any info prior to entering credit card info.

I also thinking of selling the watch. What are good organisations that might be useful in appraisal and sale? Auction houses, forums, websites etc.. I live in the UK.

MF (Michael) you posted a photo from a shop in Shaffhausen. Do you know the name of it/street?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

a archival search is 50 CHF currently

...and for sales information that will have to be handled offline, because we're completely non-commercial here.

Thanks

No problem. Thanks Michael.

Thanks

So its been most likely been restored, it's unusual againt the collection of today. It was your father's watch, maybe he had others. No matter what the relationship, why even consider selling such a piece. As we all know fashion moves around and todays watches will become next decades big clunkers. Not everyone has a wrist that makes a BP or Ing look anything but XL so I can see the day when watches of the 34mm bracket come back in vogue said he wearing a Portuguese Chrono. My father was a man of simple tastes and I wish that his watch was in as good a condition. The case being from the 60s and the movement from the 40s and eventually cased by an English case maker. Sadly its a watch from a maker who appears to have gone down market. It is however their own movement and it now runs out of puff after 12 hours