Greetings and welcome to the Forum. My personal suggestion is to view the "Families" and their respective models in the "Collection" located above in the black bar options. Posted pricing is M.S.R.P. and this will help you to narrow your search accordingly.
Please let us know if you have any questions about a specific model. Your AD/Boutique will also be happy to assist you in choosing your first, but not last, IWC.
Have fun deciding,
Andy
I just read a review of the Ref 5001. Written in March 2007, the article was primarily positive. One problem for the reviewer was the very large size of the watch. By 2012 standards, I don't think that the 5001 is particularly large. It isn't a small watch but it isn't at the opposite end of the spectrum either. So in 5.5 years the 5001 has shrunk to a quite reasonable size apparently.
I agree, and in these two pieces, and the ref 325, our favorite brand was wonderfully, and correctly in my opinion, ahead of its time:
A very nice pair.
Big watches are fashionable today and, in due course, the fashion will change. That's why they call it fashion. Just look at the prices some sub-40mm watches fetch at auction. Quality rules supreme. I suspect those watches that are timeless will retain their value better than a watch which may be sooo 2012 in a few years time. Think of the 325 and the 666 and all those Pateks.
I'm not sure Rave, for these reasons:
a) the steady increase of wrist watch sizes from the 1960s till now. I don't think the likes of 46 to 48 mm diameter watches will become the mainstay given the physical size limits of most people's wrist, but I think 42-44 mm may well remain in vogue for some time to come;
b) re those Pateks - is it the brand, or the size ? Because the price-inflation applies to sizes as small as 30mm to their 42mm chronographs. and ... there aren't any 44 mm and above Pateks for a fair comparison.
in addition, who are the ones keeping the prices up, and what are their ages ? were their watch appreciation taste cultivated during the smaller 33 to 36mm diameter eras ?
On auction prices,I perceive a correlation between relative size and price,even for those small Pateks. A substantially similar 35mm Patek will usually go for more than a 33mm one, and all other factors being equal that 33mm one will outsell a 30mm classic Calatrava. Likewise, a jumbo 38mm Vacheron sells for substantially more than a 35 or 36mm one of like design and movement.
I think the increase something relative recent. I' ll quote a post by Franz Mattes from last year.
I'm not sure about that Bas, for two reasons:
a) the graph plots IWC only - regardless of the wider watch market at large. (Kudos still to Franz for making the effort for this very informative chart)
b) if we are confining ourselves only to IWC sizes, and if one were to check, say the pre 1988 catalogs, and confine them to the men's watches of IWC, for example in Michael's Vintage Catalogs www.iwcforum.com/Vintage_Catalogs.html, I think the chart will may plot a bit differently. I have not done this exercise, so this is only my guess - by seeing examples such as the likes of the Yacht Club II or the Ingenieur SL, but would certainly welcome any corrections :)
True
I don't know about the Yacht Club II, but the Jumbo Ingenieur SL is 40 mm and was considered a big watch in 70s. It's succesors, the ref. 3505/3506 and 3521 are 34 mm.
Afaik 34-36 mm was a normal size until the 1980s. Most cal. 89 I see are 35-36 mm. The predecessors of the Ingenieur SL are 36,5 (ref 666) and 37 mm (ref 866).
exactly - pre 1988 we are already looking at large sizes.
To me, a large diameter watch is part of IWC's DNA - and to me, one of the reasons why this DNA has been so successful in the 90s and 2000s. They were ahead of their time, and benefited greatly when that size came of age.
Yes, but IWC was not very succesful and went back to making smaller watches.
The Jumbo Ingenieur was an exception with it's 40 mm. IWC sold no more than 600, mainly because it is was to big.
The other big wristwatch in IWC history, the ref. 325, also sold in very low numbers.
There can certainly be a spirited discussion about the size of watches and where the fashion standards are headed.
But if you are a recent IWC fan, by default you must love bigger watches or you would not be here. I know the vintage collectors may reasonably differ.
But I like 42-47 mm without a problem. And IWC has plenty to offer in that range.
Well obviously I'm not a fan of the recent models. I hope I'm allowed to stay. This forum is about more than the recent watches. Isn't it?
Here, here.
I've been here almost from the beginning; from well before all IWC models were “oversized”.
I have not been a fan of most of the new models for a while, and I must confess that, at times, I feel out of place in a forum that has changed dramatically from the early days. I am staying because of the the creation of the vintage platform, and because it is inevitable this big watch craze implode and IWC return to making elegant watches.
@ Bas. @ Tony
You guys took me out of context. I said that other collectors could reasonably disagree. And as I expected, some do disagree.
My point was that most new collectors of IWC watches will like bigger watches. Most, not all.
Hi Alan,
Yes, I did. It was to make my point. Sorry it had to be your quote.
As Tony said, sometimes I feel a little out of place. When I say that I like then new pilotline, but they are to big, there's is always someone who will say something like 'pilotwatches should be big', 'big watches are part of IWC's DNA' or 'real men wear big watches'.
Bas,
Well, for me that's what a discussion forum is - for there to be reasonable and civil discussion. In the (competitive) marketplace of ideas and opinions, there won't be universal agreement all the time.
On your earlier point on IWC's bigger sized models not selling well - to me that is a different point from whether they were ahead of their time. Many of the same pieces that did not sell well are elevated to 'iconic' status these days. "Ahead of one's time' does not necessarily equate with commercial success - for me that's the commercial world. Like the tide, commercial success rises and wanes - depending on the people, market demand, timing, quality. The Longines 30H Chronograph at 38mm in diameter, released in 1969, continues to be in great demand, and holding its value very well. But the same success and 'value' cannot be attributed to the brand and its current models now.
For me, and this is my own opinion which others may disagree if they choose, large sized watches are part of IWC's DNA, especially after hearing Mr Hannes Pantli speak about it in Hong Kong in person - on the attempts to 'launch a large watch' again and again - and finally meeting with commercial success in 1993 with the Jubilee Portugeiser.
On whether large or over-sized watches will remain in vogue, time as always will be the final arbiter. I tend to adopt the analogy of TV screens and cars - living rooms and roads do not get bigger but the market place abounds with big and small cars and TV screens. With increasing wealth I think the market has segments which can cater for each variety and taste.
I must correct my initial statement. I am not staying in the forum only because of the vintage section, or because I am waiting for IWC’s mitochondrial DNA to take over.
The main reason I’m staying is because of the people I met here, over the last 10 years, even if we have diametrically opposite tastes, as Alan and I do.
"Mitochondrial" DNA? Love it... Brought a big smile to my face...
This is a terrific thread chaps!
Personally, my sweet spot is around the 40mm mark - as my wrists are a little over 6.5". Before my current daily beater (@ 40mm) it was a 36mm, but I grew out of that style as I matured and developed in knowledge.
What I do find, is that we sometimes focus too much on the actual size of the dial and not the fit. There are factors that affect the fit and perceived size:
For example:
- the positioning and size/width of the shoulders.
- type of strap/bracelet used.
In the end, if you are comfortable with the look and fit... that already is a winner in my eyes.
Have a good weekend folks.
I'm new to IWC but was not drawn to it by the larger watches. The 5001 is as big as I could possibly go but luckily, there is plenty in that range.
On another note, I think the type of watch also plays a part in what looks too big/small. Sme 42 watches have thick cases and that makes them seem bigger that cases with a slimmer profile. Also, with sportier watches, e.g. Aquatimer, larger seems to work better.
Really loving this thread! So glad I joined this forum as everyone else I know gives me a blank stare whenever I try to talk about watches, especially IWC.
I like your analogy. Problem, in my view, is that IWC stopped making smaller watches. There are no watches under 40 mm in the current line-up. If you like the IWC-style and want a smaller watch, you have a problem. IWC stopped catering for that marketsegment. Most carmanufacturers still produce smaller and bigger cars.
@Bas: agreed, the car analogy is not perfect -- which adds to my point about the broader trend in general for watch manufacturers: IWC doesn't make 40mm or less watches, just as Patek doesn't make 33mm or less watches (for men).
Shing (wearing a 39mm ref 3510 @ the flight gate enroute to Munich and Italy :)
I used to enjoy the 34-36mm category but the 3714 and 5001 sit on my small wrist and stay put, they do not slip around my wrist. That may be due to the straps which are less prone to stretching and likewise have their own rigidity. My late father's 35mm x 8mm HW daily watch, as in 365 days per year, has just had a mini spa. New crown due to original being worn smooth, new plexi due to age rather than scratches, new winding wheel due to missing teeth and strip clean lube and reassemble, but it did not need it's 9ct gold case polished away to hide that nasty scratch nor infilled to hide the ding all thanks to it's slim 8mm profile. Wear a brick and they get knocked and it matters not whether they are 35 or 45mm diameter it's the thickness that guarantees those dings will happen. But can it be that a slim watch of 40+mm will sit better and stay put on someone wrist than a watch of less than 36mm?