Unknown limited editions

Hi everyone,

I have recently joined the Forum, and am wondering.... I am the proud owner of a one of 55 Ingenieur Automatic AMG CLS 55. As I understand it is quite unknown that this series even exists. Are there any more of these "unknown" limited editions in other families. Sure we all know the Volvo edition Portuguese, Zinedine Zidane, Aquatimer Boesch, etc. But are these limited editions specified anywhere? I once saw a really impressive databse from The Cellar (Greg Steer) however, for instance, not my watch is listed there. So, maybe a nice idea of joining forces together and making a list of very special limited edtions?

First entry: (not my own knowledge, but humbly stolen from this Forum:

IWC Ingenieur Automatic AMG CSL 55 total of 165 pieces, 55 each for the European, Asian an USA lucky ones. Cal 80110, Silver dial, Titanium

This issue has come up before. There are several threads, one I started a few years back.
At SIHH in 2011 we specifically asked that it would be great to see a list of all the special editions. I understand why the information is not published during the model year (actually, I really don't understand why they don't do it, only that they think its a bad idea). If every case and movement is numbered surely there are accurate records of each and every special edition.

Anyway, to answer your question...there are plenty of special editions we never hear about until someone on the Forum comes across them and chooses to make others aware.

Hi Allen,

Why do THEY think it would be a bad idea? I don't understand why it could possibly harm anyone. I remember a thread earlier of limited editions Ingenieurs which was made more complete by other members. It would be nothing more than joining knowledge together by IWC enthusiasts, or am I wrong? Anyway, in order to react to your last remark, the Forum can make others aware of unknown editions..... So, it would be alowed to do so?

What I think is that some editions are quite similar and presenting them all together in a list would clearly show that. If I was the owner of a jeweler store or small group of jewelers that had a limited edition made of say 25 Portugese Automatics in a precious metal and a special color, it wouldn't be nice to see a jeweler maybe from another continent presenting a watch that only differs in one or two small details.

Maybe I am completely wrong so please let me know what you think of this.

Kind regards,

Clemens

There are reasons for IWC's position. Otherwise we would have a link to all the special editions.
In the meantime, we are all reporters trying to get the word out as soon as we know of something new.

Hi Clemens,

True, maybe some limited editions are only by details different from others, however, they are limited editions.... The fact is that there are only a few of them. So, wouldn't it be nice for IWC enthusiasts in the year 2100 to konw that there once were limited editions of.... Knowledge eventually gets lost in time, unless it is documented. I remember reading in an IWC catalogue that there was an unknown portuguese watch coming from a aristocratic protuguese family? --or read it somewehere else-- Back then there wasn't a Forum. Now there is. So, aren't we a little responsible of documenting or writing about these unknown pieces? apart from being really interesting to know while we are still here?

The idea of having information documented for posterity is a good one. Maybe this kind of information could be made available one or several years later to avoid influencing the market.

Kind regards,

Clemens

I understand the reason for not publishing information in order to not influence the market. I am sure back at Schaffhausen everything is documented in the past. However, not published by them a few years later, as far as I know. If there is not anyone who can think of a reason why Forum members share this information between each other, then why don't we just try? So, here's an invitation to everyone: are there any reasons why this should not be done?

There are other sources... For example one of our Forum members has this site.

www.fliegeruhr.ch/grosse_fliegeruhr.htm

IWC collector,

There are hundreds, perhaps more than a thousand, limited editions over the past 50 years. Your AMG model is nice, but not unknown nor unique.

There are two problems with announcing or categorizing all limited modes:

1. Many "belong" to specific retailers or specific markets. They get to announce and market them.
2. The manpower to satisfy collectors' curiosity is, frankly, limited.

Each year I get a booklet, not for publication, of planned limited editions. There are usually at least a dozen, and sometimes many more, intended for each year.

And has there been a booklet issued to you yet with a new collectors forum limited edition watch by any chance?? nudge nudge, wink wink :)

My opinion only here - I think it is hard to list all the LEs in a timely fashion because:

Locale, Platform & Function -many of these special editions are limited to a top authorized dealer, or a country/city, or a specific boutique. Rightly, or wrongly, these editions are 'special' and geared towards that purpose - disseminating information widely about it defeats the purpose. For instance the 2012 Portuguese Automatic 5001 'Dragon' Edition was announced only in the Simplified & Traditional Chinese editions of Watch International - all other versions omitted it, because it was targeted towards that market / those cities' boutiques. Of late, as we have seen in the posts, this piece can be picked up elsewhere in other cities' boutiques (I think other boutiques have the ability, subject to supply, to 'order in' a few pieces if they choose).

Timing - different special editions are released at different times, and I think kept 'secret' until then (or else it would be less special ?) Any 'list' would be have to be constantly updated and broadcasted and edited, and laid out nicely, for the purpose of a media broadcast, which involves time & moeny, and I am guessing this will only happen if the need for it is very high. My personal opinion is that the need is not great - as recounted here.

Co-ordination & Production practicalities- I am also guessing that production numbers must reach (or anticipated to reach) a certain number before it can be feasibly be announced - and this is in turn is contingent on production capability (including passing quality controls (especially for an out-sourced, sub-contracted part), or mere production time which could be influenced by the priority of the piece). In my dialogues with HK Flagship Boutique about their recently-announced special edition, I am made aware that one issue for instance was that of design, so time I suppose is needed before a decision is made - and there will be an element of uncertainty in the timing.

Ownership & Responsibility of broadcast - if it is an authorized dealer special edition, I am guessing the onus lays on that AD to do the necessary marketing & publicity so as to sell that piece... and that in turns is contingent on the marketing & publicity ability of that AD.

Language - special editions in non-English languages do not reach the English-speaking sphere as fast as it does others. And by then, many may have been sold that marketing is no longer needed by the responsible point-of-sales boutique/dealer.

Sales- some special editions are sold off so quickly that the general community knows only through forums such as ours' or when it is re-sold.

I think in january this year @ the Collectors Dinner this question was raised again, and if I recall correctly the answer was that that task would be difficult. I am guessing with what I have written above that these would be some of the issues involved - corrections welcome.

My personal opinion is that keeping track of such things can well fall within the co-operative domain of communities like this, like ours. And... there are also always nice surprises - a steel Portuguese Perpetual Calendar ? A 'Taiwan' Portuguese Automatic ? the list goes on...

@Shing
I think all of your points are valid. But how about a list of Special Editions a year or two after they are produced? It would not help us find new editions but it would nicely outline what editions exist.

Shing - I am so impressed that you picked up on my subtle comment when I commented on the Harrods boutique edition with the dragon on the rotor wothout calling it the Hong Kong limkted edition.

I am glad to see this discussion come up time an again. As mentioned earlier it would appear that it is only a small population - mainly guys like us who are fans and informal ambassadors of IWC who are really interested in such information. Topics like this are the fuel of great forum discussions and it would be great to have privileged information here. Michael and Oliver et al at IWC have been rather good at times in announcing limited edition models here - but the point that it is not comprehensive does cause delicate frustrations to surface from those who love a complete list.

In the past we were informed that perhaps not all limited editions were documented at the time tehy left the factory with complete details but could be reconstructed via the Ledger books. This is a big job. I have personally been in the archive and looked through small segments and it is a time intensive and laborious task. But I am sure a volunteer groups of collectors could all spend 2-4 hours each, each time we visit Schaffhuasen and do the cataloging ourselves. I did this for specific models in the "Club family" and it was a lot of fun. I reckon enough collectors (forum participants) visit Schaffhuasne often enou for us to complete this task within a reasonable time.

An alternative is we all chip in x CHF and pay a school student over their school holidays and the resulting publication "book" is provided to us. Our x CHF is likely less than we would pay for the book if we see it in a bookstore.

Today - and I presume for the last 5 years or so - all the processes are proceeding to current leading industry's standards of production so all will be available electronically. Therefore like Alan suggests - after a suitable time period why doesn't IWC publish in the special area of the forum all the limited edition versions with full details. It is fueling interest albeit in a s small community that will propagate in a potentially positive manner.

Hi Andrew,

Excellent suggestion. I am in. As I started this little discussion, I made the suggestion of joining knowledge from Forum Members to start out a list. Maybe we can come a long way like that. And then complete it in the way you suggested. Also, as I read the different comments, there seem to be different limited editions. Like editions made specifically for a certain AD or country. Off course there are also the limited editions by IWC like for instance the PPC Kurt Klaus or AT Cousteau Divers, etc. Is it an idea of making a definition of which Limited Editions should be in this list? Or make two lists.... Anyway I would love to see such a list or lists. What do you think?