Unusual White Dial 3536 to discuss.

Hi Guys,

A very good friend of mine and also a dealer came across this watch in Europe and asked if I was interested in purchasing. Of course I was but, as you will see, I have neither heard of nor seen this configuration before. It looks amazing and definitely unique however I am wondering if this was some kind of "custom mod", or might have indeed been some sort of LE. Here are a few quick photos for you to enjoy. Like I said, it looks amazing. My only question is what is the provenance or information available from IWC sources.

The caseback states, "Submarine Limited 50/xx" and serial number is 2753808.
Thanks.

IWC GST 3536 white steel dial #1
IWC GST 3536 white steel dial #2

Dear,

Let's wait until the experts chimes in.

I think it's a replica:
-I have never seen a ref. 3536 with those engravings on the caseback, nor heard about a limited edition for this very watch. This is rather suspect, since usually, there should be a submarine, with the "international watch co schaffausen" in capitals engraved. Can you please provide a picture of the back by the way?
-The black luminous material on the hands and indexes is to me a dead giveaway. It should be pale yellowish.

The only way to make sure it's 100% authentic is to buy from authorized retailers. Of course, if you are purchasing it from somewhere else, I would highly recommend you to do your job. (you know, if it's too good to be true...) Ask your friend to open it, if he's a dealer he should be equipped with the correct wrench, then post here a picture of the caliber inside the watch and we shall be able to assist you further. Good luck!

Edit: does it comes full set, with original box, booklets and warranty card? Schaffhausen might also help you determine if the watch is legit. You may want go to your nearest AD or give them directly a call.

At first sight it looked real. But then...

...
The black markers are not real. The hands are not real.
The engravings on the back are very suspect.
Why "Submarine Limited"? It's an Aquatimer.
Usually IWC limits 03/50 not 50/03.
Look, how Submarine is stamped very near to the hole. The S is very close to the hole.
The top of the submarine is not original.
The turning bezel has stripes on it at the background which the original never had.
If it's a fake, which I'm sure, it's scaringly well done.
If you're not sure about it, don't buy it. I wouldn't.

But probably this post is just to find out what to do better for the next model? Then I ran into the trap. But I hope not. I believe in this forum.

About the bezel, have a look at this link Your text to link here...
The striped pattern is really peculiar to me, but since I saw this one posted I did not jumped on that conclusion...still...

I agree with Tilo
T SWISS T - I've never seen black Tritium.

Without spending more than a few minutes looking at the pictures I think it looks like a genuine 3536 that has been 'modified' by someone; those modifications being to replace the lume on the dial and hands with black paint and to add the engraving on the back. The second hand may also have been repainted but it's hard to tell from the picture whether it is the original dark blue.
As for the lines on the bezel inlay, I have had two of these watches and, including the one I still have, both had that patterning.
Equally, on mine there are lines in the background of the submarine picture on the case back.
However, reproductions (fakes) are very becoming very good and so without closer examination, including of the movement, it is difficult to be definitive.

p.s. I had a closer look and just realised that I missed a couple of obvious points - the dial plots and hands should be gold on a 3536-03. I imagine the hands could be easily replaced with those from a black dialled model but the dial plots might be a bit more problematic. Also, the dial finish looks too white and not flat around the plots, as if painted around the plots rather than the plots being applied on top of the finished dial (although that might just be the light), if that makes sense.

Ha. I just realized why I hate online forums and that while on a quest for information, all you get is speculation from all the "experts".

In any case, I will finish what I started.

The following photos, in my mind and with my considerable knowledge, validate authenticity and that, in fact, someone went through an inordinate amount of effort to "mod" this watch. The history may never be known but I love it and it looks absolutely stunning. IMHO, how the white dial 3536 should have been created in the first place.

BACK
INSIDE BACK
MOVEMENT

And a word to the wise:

About six years ago I was in the room with my colleague and 5 other so-called "Patek" experts reviewing a very special 2499 being sold in the very high 6 figures. The "groupthink" resolve was that it was indeed not an original, authentic 2499 but that it had been "altered" and wasn't worth anywhere near the asking price.

My colleague went with his gut, bought the watch, and subsequently turned his six-figure purchase into a seven figure profit to the tune of 466% (attaining one of the highest prices ever reached for a Patek.

Thanks to all the "experts".

Here's one I made earlier today.

This is the only white dial 3536 that was made (in quite small quantities, as far as I am aware). The black and white dial on the version shown is certainly unusual. One of a kind. I am not sure why anyone would want a 2000m without lume. It gets dark down there.

Before you go can you help the forum by asking your colleague if the tritium pip on the bezel was left presumably readable for a reason..thanks in advance.

Don't know why. The watch was acquired from someone representing an estate as I understand. We have essentially "zero" information just acquired it due to its uniqueness and confidence it was a "mod" but otherwise authentic. Wish I knew.

As opposed to being outright dismissive and incorrect like some of the comments posted early on. I was looking for information not condemnation. Enjoy your information as I will my watch. At least I am mature enough to post and share and not "take my toys and go home" after a little bit of disagreement and rebuttal of wildly inaccurate initial comments/information.

PS: Neither you nor I know for certain that the 50/03 on the case back indicates a series so once again some information based on speculation not on fact.

Should have known better to come here. Will search elsewhere for professional, educated information and comments.

going a bit off topic here, but is it me or these old school divers look and feel more badass than today's new and "improved" models?? You look at these on someone's wrist and you would think "damn, this one has seen some action"! You look at the new ones and think "damn, this one has seen some pool action"

I think you are being unfair in respect of the responses you have received. The watch looks like a genuine 3536. The dial does not look genuine. For some reason, someone has either changed the original dial or replaced the batons with non-tritium / non-lune batons and replaced the hands. This exercise seems to have been pointless because the luminosity (an essential feature of Aquatimers) has been compromised. Furthermore, the back of the watch has a non-sensical engraving 50/03. Had the engraving indicated 03/50, we could have taken it more seriously. Moreover, there is no record of IWC having run a limited edition with the 3536. Clearly, the response is not the response you were looking for but you'll have to visit many forums before you find a group who will recognise the watch. If I were you, I would send the watch to Schaffhausen, get it serviced and the dial and hands will be replaced. For a fee, they will give you a certificate of authenticity. Alternatively, as the Moderator said, enjoy your special watch but beware, if the the watch has been opened by an unqualified watchmaker, the water protection may be compromised too.

There is usually no substitute for the real thing...and in this case it is most definitely the case :)

Whilst a dial owning T Swiss T markings could well be incorrect when not housing tritium, it's only a general rule, watches specifically ordered for the japanese market were once made in such a combination..but with the customer in mind specifically not wanting tritium i very much doubt someone would fail to remember the bezel pip...the factory and the customer obviously felt the t swiss was by the by (in times gone by).

[ol]
[li]Sorry, but it's not an original modification done by IWC. So some of the experts were correct. I doubt that the modifications increase the value.[/li]
[li]And if you know all better than the experts, I wonder why you asked.[/li]
[li]Not all that answered, consider themselves as experts. Me included. They just shared some of their knowledge and what's more: their experience.[/li]
[/ol]

Hi,
The serial number 2753808 on your watches case back was used by IWC on a 3536-02 with a black dial. It was not a limited edition.
These are facts, not speculation.