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Update on European vintage markets

  • forum 20 replies
  • last reply by Martijn5441 20 Jun 2008
  • Last
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    Mr. Tonny Berteloot
    Moderator 3583 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 7:25 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 7:25 p.m.
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    This morning, Adrian and myself went for the Uhrenmesse in Cologne. This time ( as we were early ) it was not too crowdy and we could take our time to look into all the boxes in search of hidden treasures. Watchfairs like this are places were you can find interesting items, but as we saw today, one has to be alert.
    As an example of this ; there was a Mark IX for sale, Adrian and I took a good look at it and we can say that nothing was correct on that watch, nor the dial, nor the hands, nor the bezel, not even the case... But the seller claimed that it was genuine ( and asked 15.000 euros for it ) ( MF I hope and believe I don't break any forum rules here ) A few meters further, there was a gentlemen selling a steel Jubilee, a "special" one, a watch that was made by the development team at Schaffhausen and thus hadn't the limitation number on it... Yes, watch fairs can be a lot of fun...
    On the other hand, we saw some wonderful pieces as there were ; a Jumbo Ingenieur ( the antimagnetic one, not the new ), a ref 666, an Aquatimer ref 812, a Wempe Pilot Perpetual, a Portuguese Perpetual in platinum, a nice ref. 325 Portugieser, priced reasonably but without papers, a very nice pocketwatch cal. 29, 8 Da Vinci perpetuals in steel and in gold, a few Porsche Designs, 5 or 6 mark XII. Also a lot of Portuguese, chrono and automatic, some new Ingenieurs, two with the ceramic bezel, an Amalfi too, an Ocean 2000 Bund, auto and quartz,a lot of cal 89...
    Also there were unfortunaly also more mariages than you can see on a hot day in Vegas.
    Prices were not always exagerated so it was hard not to buy (must keep my money in the pocket for another one )

    users.pandora.be/tonnyb/K%f6ln.JPG

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    Mr. Bob Bunnik
    Master 5208 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 4:55 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 4:55 p.m.
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    Thanks for the report Tonny, appreciated! nt

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    Bill B.
    Master 6725 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 8:50 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 8:50 p.m.
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    Thanks Tonny. Wish we had something like it in US

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    Mr. Alan Ross
    Master 5742 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 6 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 6 p.m.
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    This reminds me of the old days when we'd hunt...

    for hidden treasures among the thousands of LP's at a record store. But the records were a lot cheaper.

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    Joseph White
    Master 1648 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 2:45 a.m. 16 Jun 2008, 2:45 a.m.
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    Great Post Tonny...Looked like a good time. nt

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    Mr. argiris develegas
    Master 2973 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 6:05 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 6:05 p.m.
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    Thank you Tonny great report, always welcome

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    Mr. Stefan Weeber
    Master 2009 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 6:15 a.m. 16 Jun 2008, 6:15 a.m.
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    Thanks for the update Tonnynt

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    David Hamilton
    Master 1313 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 1:15 a.m. 16 Jun 2008, 1:15 a.m.
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    Sounds like a good day. Thanks Tonny nt

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    Isobars
    Master 6256 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 5:40 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 5:40 p.m.
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    Tonny you and Adrian need to bring these fairs to

    U.S. They would be a huge hit!!!

    Cheers from Isobars.

    P.S. Don't forget to bring lots and lots of PW.

    P.P.S. Of course this is only a dream, Customs would spoil it :-(

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    Richard Sheridan
    Master 4181 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 12:25 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 12:25 p.m.
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    Thanks for the report...you know...

    What is interesting is the "old" DaVinci Perpetual (pre 2004) is starting to appeal to me more. I wonder why? I never cared for it -but your mention of the plentiful inventories tells me that I am in a minority.

    Thanks again.

    Richard

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    Nelson Herring
    Master 2723 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 8:10 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 8:10 p.m.
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    Interesting report. Thanks for the information

    from two true experts!

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    Mr. MS S
    Insider 86 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 4:05 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 4:05 p.m.
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    Jubilee

    I have seen such a Jubilee (without number) some time ago... the seller stated that the watch was made for employees only.

    Maybe MF can confirm that it never happens, or does it?

    Cheers,
    Martijn

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    Mr. Norbert Scheepers
    Master 2703 posts
    15 Jun 2008, 7:40 p.m. 15 Jun 2008, 7:40 p.m.
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    Great report Tonny. Thanksnt

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    ADRIAN van der Meijden
    Master 2662 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 7:55 a.m. 16 Jun 2008, 7:55 a.m.
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    Watch fair or Uhrenboerse....

    Certainly compared to the US and several European countries we(Tonny and I ), live in a small "watch" world. We are less than 300 km from cities as Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, Cologne, Duesseldorf etc.
    These cities are in 3 different countries!. With the existance of the European Union there are no borders nor custom issues. My estimate is that on the watch fair in Cologne are about 80 dealers present with an average of 30 watches per dealer. As Germany is an extremely important country for sales of IWC in Europe- considered over a period of the last 20 years- IWC watches are abundantly present. As it takes only about a 2,5 hour drive, Tonny Berteloot, sometimes Rob Stijnen and me visit this watch fair because there is always interesting IWC "stuff". Many collectors never visit such watch fairs. They find the place too crowded and the offered watches too much at risk, to say the least. Tonny mentioned the IWC Mark IX, a complete fake but with a price tag of 15.000 Euro(or 23.000$).
    However, by frequently visiting the event we have learned who are the reliable sellers and who we should avoid. If you have done your home work you can buy many times excellent collector's IWC's for a reasonable price. And the advantage of buying directly instead of via the internet is that you can examine the piece before buying and that risk of loss in the mail and other internet disadvantages can be eliminated.
    Therefore I think that Tonny and I will continue to visit the watch fairs in the future. Although Tonny has a much larger watch budget than I have, this time he did not buy an IWC gem. A while ago I told you about his search for an Ardoise Portugieser Automatic. He found one within the period I predicted. Now, between you and me, I think that Tonny is looking after a 1993 Jubilee.
    As I am not completely sure, my estimate is as follows.
    Tonny will find one within 4 weeks.It might be a steel one or a gold. If not, I ow him a bottle of champaign, because making such statement may have repercussions. But if he buys one, my request to him would be, to be permitted to hold his watch in my hands for 15 seconds.
    Kind regards,
    Adrian.
    P.s.After having being repaired, I got back on the fair a "Borgel" IWC Pocket Watch on which I will report later this week.

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    Isobars
    Master 6256 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 4:05 p.m. 16 Jun 2008, 4:05 p.m.
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    Thanks Adrian...Excellent post. nt.

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    Mr. Andrew Thomas
    Master 5816 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 12:45 p.m. 16 Jun 2008, 12:45 p.m.
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    lovely narration - I love

    the writing style very much.

    Andrew

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    Nad
    Master 3798 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 10:25 p.m. 16 Jun 2008, 10:25 p.m.
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    Hi Tonny, thanks for the insight >>>>>

    I'm sure it's a 'slippery slope' when attending these events, especially with the intention to acquire something.

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    Cinq
    Master 5431 posts
    16 Jun 2008, 7:40 p.m. 16 Jun 2008, 7:40 p.m.
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    Very interesting report

    Thanks for the report! I once visited 'tiktak' in Holland, that was very interesting too. I just went to look around but saw quite a lot of nice IWC's there too. I do think that it's important to know who you can trust and who sells fakes and of course, first hand knowledge of the model you are looking for helps too.

    Kind regards and maybe I could join you one day on such a visit?

    Clemens

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    Rave
    Master 3148 posts
    17 Jun 2008, 5:10 p.m. 17 Jun 2008, 5:10 p.m.
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    Tonny, I would appreciate an e-mail..

    ... on the dates of future markets if you have them. Thanks for the report,

    Regards,

    Ralph

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    Gerald Ebisuzaki
    Master 1797 posts
    18 Jun 2008, 10:55 p.m. 18 Jun 2008, 10:55 p.m.
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    Tonny, thanks for the post.nt

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    ref5441
    Master 3906 posts
    20 Jun 2008, 7:45 a.m. 20 Jun 2008, 7:45 a.m.
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    Thanks Tonny and Adrian!

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