Very intriguing...

I've just seen a Ref 666AD Ingenieur in stainless steel with a cal 8531, beautiful pristine NOS dial, but without a case number between the lugs, or anywhere else for that matter. No images available.
Everything about the watch appears to be authentic. I was really puzzled.
Would you have been?

You are the expert but any time I don't see a case number on an IWC watch I question everything.

Although everything else was correct in the watch, I also questioned its authenticity and challenged the owner to get IWC's Extract from the Ledger. That should put the issue to rest.
BTW, the military Mark 11s of the RAF, RAAF, RNZAF, SAAF, and the quasi-civilian Mark 11 of the former BOAC do not have case numbers, and are authentic IWCs.

I would be suspicious on this model. Exceptions are theoretically possible, but so are marriages.

Yes, the fakers are getting frighteningly good; an extract would be the best insurance here, I think.

I think your "suspicion radar" is working well, Tony!

Regards.

If they are getting so good, what would be the problem to put a number on a place where it is to be expected? One good looking number would suffice, as you don't have to show more than one watch at a time.

Kind regards,
Paul

The movement is authentic. The soft iron cage appears authentic. The dial and and hands also appear authentic, although I could not remove the dial to check if it is made of soft iron. The stainless steel case appeared legitimate but could be fabricated, or it could have been stolen from IWC in the 1960s before the case number was engraved.
I also considered that the watch could be stolen and the case number filed away to prevent identification, but I did not notice evidence of that.
There is a possibility this watch was actually put together outside of IWC with all IWC legitimate parts. If this is indeed the case this watch, nice as it is, is not a Ref 666AD Ingenieur, and is therefore worth only the value of each part.
The rule Caveat Emptor aplies

An explanation may be that criminals, clever as they may be, are essentially lazy, and are only willing to invest the minimum effort they think they can get away with for a quick gain. If they were willing to work hard for their money, they would have an honest job.

And also, pantograph workings are not so easy to pefectly reproduce the original font and body. A bad work on serial number could represent a boomerang to counterfeiters.

I have heard, from a reliable inside source, of certain IWC Club models that were made in the late 1970s without numbered cases, and they were "assembled" outside of the factory with legitimate dial, movement and case parts. With the quartz crisis, some crazy things occurred in that time period.

Clubs? Yacht Clubs? Polo Clubs? Golf Clubs? What about Ingenieurs? Aquatimers?

So it depends now on the price. Perhaps it is a very unique piece which will turn out to be a real find. If the price is right it might be worth taking a chance.

The 666 case that should be married to a nos 666 dial (how many original nos 666 dials have you seen in the last two decades/non re-strikes) is not so simple to carry off, give schaffhausen a slightly used one and they can restore it very well but they can't readilly nos it. Having a nos 666 dial with complimentary case is not so easy to stumble across.....a refurbed dial opens a different can of worms.

Whether you'd buy it or not would i guess depend on your bottle, not many watch collectors would....having the formula- buyer mentality does not bode well when highering the bar. I bought an 866 oneday that was devoid of casenumbers, the case, dial and movement were nos (not ebay nos), it had been sent back to Schaffhausen and unfortunately an extract could not be had but a letter confiming the watch was an all geniune IWC product with a movemnt number purposefully set aside for the very model. The dial was original......the case had not been made aftermarket and the specific movement belonged to the line.

Would you buy a non ingenieur automatic Schaffhausen piece with punched serial numbers between the lugs just because one had never shown itself? Sometimes watch collecting is'nt at all like painting by numbers.I would'nt swop a nos 666 devoid of case numbers for a re-worked, re-dialled piece with extract.

I don't recall having said that I wanted to acquire that watch for my collection. I would not buy it even if it were for sale, which it is not. The watch in question belongs to an acquaintance who solicited my advice. My posting here intends to pick the Forum's collective brain to complement my limited knowledge.
I know what I know, and I am very much aware of what I don't know. I know that the more I know the more I know how little I know. I also know that there are things I don't know I don't know. I hope I made myself perfectly clear.

If it's not for sale then it would be good, if possible, to see pictures of this case.

We all know vintage is not a perfect science and I've personally seen many anomalies on watches to be considered at the end, completely correct.

Maybe a forum workaround would work to come to some definitive conclusions. It would be also instructive to everybody.

:)

I would if I could. I do not have the owner's permission to post images in the net.

My apologies Mr. Cleps....although you very obviously know a lot ....i was'nt actually addressing you personally with my question. For forum members intrested in such anomalies then asking would they buy the straight auto piece with punched numbers somewhat forces them to think about the lot and not neccessarilly get themselves strung-up with missing numbers. In future when i'm addressing you i will quote your specific chat.

No apology necessary. I was trying to be factious, obviously unsuccessfully

If the existing case back to the watch HAS the case number inscribed on the inside , then its very unlikely that the watch started out as an Ingenieur.

Regards
Ivan
iwcforme

There is no case number anywhere in the watch.