Your experiences with the material of ceramic for watches

Hello to the forum

After being crazy about the Big Pilot my favorite now is Da Vinci Chronograph Ceramic - this really great looking and fascinating timepiece.
My question to the forum:

Has anybody some experience with ceramic watches concerning fragility?

What about the risk of breaking especially at the place where the bracelet is fixed to the watch? What if you hit by accident your arm and watch against a hard piece of stone, metal or something else?

Of course you treat your beloved timepiece with much care – but what when it unfortunately falls down on a hard floor – not on a carpet. What about the risk of a break or a crack?

Thanks a lot for your answers.

Regards Lutz

Hello Lutz,
I believe there are a few stories and photos on this forum about tragic cracking or breaking of a ceramic pilot watch. It seems that this type of impact to the watch case would cause damage to metal case and movement as well. Yes the ceramic may break under significant impact.
That said, the IWC ceramic case is one of my favorites. I don't have a Da Vinci ceramic, but a Top Gun Doppel and it is one of my favorite watches. Light, cool in the summer and warm in the winter.
Jeff

Hi Jeff

Thank you very much for your answer.

Yes I was afraid of that.
Of course you can damage everything – the question is just is a damage more likely with a ceramic watch than with one out of steel and how serious is such a damage – can it be repaired completely and will the watch afterwards be worthless?

I don`t want to be very anxious, but I think, it is better to worry before than when it has happened.

Lutz

Hello Lutz,

I have two ceramic cased watches and have owned both for at least a couple of years. Both have stood up to the wear and look like new.

Have never dropped one to experience what any impact might do to the case.

One is the 46mm Carlson LE Doppel and the other is a Panerai Radiomir case.

I also had a ceramic bezel Big Bang for almost 6 years and the polished ceramic bezel looked like new!

So, my personal experience with ceramic has been very positive and would highly recommend it to anyone.

I hope this helps!

I've had an original ceramic Pilot's Chrono (Ref 3705) for some time and never had a problem. I also had a rare ceramic Da Vinci for a short time and had no problem.

There's been two reports of some damage to ceramic (one broken) when dropped on a hard surface. It's anecdotal to generalize from that, but I doubt a tourbillon, repeater, or many other watches wouldn't suffer equally, even if differently.

Since you have thrown ceramic, tourbie and repeaters into the equation, are tourbies (whether by IWC or anyone else) very troublesome if not worn in a genteel manner?

All fine complications are by definition sensitive but not troublesome. In its first year, I wore mine close to 300 full days without a problem. It also did survive one fall as reported here.

It's the same thing as a chronograph versus a "time only" watch. The simpler watch by definition has less to go wrong. In theory, a chronograph is more at risk in a fall than a time only watch. That may make it more sensitive but not more troublesome.

I have not had a problem with my ceramic doppel. But I must say that I only remove any watch from my wrist while standing over a bed or chair which would cushion the blow if I dropped it.

Hi Nad

Thank you for answering.
Your experience calms me down – and I think you are quite right. I myself own more than a dozen of watches – most are not valuable but I broke not one of them untill today because I treat them altogether with care.

But you know – you hear the word „ceramic“ and immedately you get such a feeling of fagility – yeah that`s funny.

So there is only one question left:
What if it happens nevertheless – have you to throw the watch away if a piece of it broke away – or can you repair it propperly – will it loose its value (because here in Switzerland such Da Vinci Chronograph ceramic costs 18`000.- swiss franks – that would be an expensive accident).

Lutz

Hello Michael
Thank you very much for your contribution.

I know what you mean and I think you are completely right:
Thousands of people got ceramic watches and are very content, two watches break and everybody talk of the two broken.

Another very important aspect is the one you mentioned: the more complex and complicated a timepiece- or also any machine is the more sensitive it is too - and that got nothing to do with troublesome – quite clear.
I think it is important to make that very clear.

Regards Lutz

Hi Greg

Thank you too for your friendly answer.
That is a very importent aspect you are pointing to – a tourbillon or any similar complication needs a more genteel treatment than a swatch with three hands or something like that.
Yes indeed – you are quite right.

Lutz

Hi Alan

Thanks for sharing your experience.
And whow – thats the BP ceramic – really great. Thanks for the picture too!

And yes of course you treat your timepiece very carefully.
I think I would do this too with a Da Vinci Chronograph ceramic ☺.

Regards Lutz

Lutz, it was really a question as to the durability of a tourbie because they are so complex and delicate by the nature of their miniscule parts. Rugged and robust is not a description I would use for complicated watches as they are too expensive to abuse, after all with all the money some people I know have, only one shows a total disdain to how he will use his cars or watches, I just shut myself down when he thrashes a cold engine or forgets to screw down his winding crown when swimming. However I am suitably impressed by the detail and ingeniousness of most decent watches, whether I would buy them is another matter! Some makes just leave me cold towards ownership or penny pinching tricks such as transfers on watch dials on certain models of certain brands. Having seen one off watches, in fact most of one mans entire work at a retrospective collection including tourbies repeaters and sidereal models, it was just horological heaven to see and experience.

Hi Lutz,

I have had one of the experiences referred to here - I recently knocked my 3799 off a bathroom bench and it landed on a terracotta tile with the following result:

Prior to this, I had worn the watch very regularly - it is pretty much my daily watch, it has had all the usually knocks bumps etc from a day to day life. The fall that caused the above was probably from about 4ft / 1.2 mt and in this case the tile won the battle.

Whilst the damage here has a high visual "impact", I hold no misconceptions that such a fall would have done as much damage to a metal cased watch except that you likely would not have been able to see the damage. I would guess that most watches would have suffered serious damage to the movement in such a fall and as Michael has mentioned, that damage gets multiplied with the complexity of the watch. My only hope in this case is that the damage to the case has absorbed some of the energy and the movement also is not too badly damaged.

I have dropped the watch off at Richemont and they have sent it back to the factory - it is pretty obvious that the case cannot be repaired leaving replacement as the only option and that will just boil down to a $$$ matter - I have not had any response back yet so do not know the full impact of the damage but can only hope that not too much damage was done to the movement.

That all said and done, the DaVinci Ceramic is probably one of my favourite watches at the moment. It is a great looking watch, is elegant, different and you dont see many of them out there. Dont let my experience hold you back from getting one or any other ceramic watch, just keep in mind that you dont need to treat it any differently to any other fine time piece out there - dont drop them from great heights - they dont like it ceramic or otherwise!

Cheers,

Ben

Hi Lutz,

it's a fact that ceramics, due to its hardness, breaks more easily than metal for example steel. But there has to be a real serious impact. On the other side the ceramic case won't scratch because of its hardness. That's the big advantage.
I think as long as the watch is in production by IWC it won't be a problem to get a new case. It's just a matter of $$$ as Ben stated.
The only question could be what happens when the watch is out of production for let's say more than 10 years. But I could imagine that IWC is even able to solve that.
My personal statement is: If you really like the watch go for it, treat it with care and if really a problem occurs, trust that IWC is able to solve it to your complete satisfaction.

Tilo

Has anyone experienced steel or other metal watches icluding Ti Pt or gold having a fractured case as the result of a knock or fall?

Hi Greg,

Whilst I have not had experience with a watch case made out of the materials in relation to your question, I was a machinist in a previous life and if memory serves me correctly, one of the properties of Titanium is its greater resistance to cracking, fracturing and work hardening due to its ability to disperse energy better - if it receives a knock, it absorbs the energy across the entire body rather than at the single point of impact - once of the reasons other than weight that it is used in high vibration environments like aircraft. There are known issues with machining it whereby you can induce work hardening in the turning / milling process but these are known issues and overcome easily with the correct processes.

Gold, and the alloys of gold (anything less than 24k) are also generally a very maleable material, meaning they are soft and also disperse energy very efficiently - it is this same property of gold being able to disperse energy that makes it very useful as an electrical conductor. Alloys with high copper content (Red / Rose Gold use copper but I dont think in ratios high enough) can work harden to the point that they can fracture / break but the whole process of work hardening is a long / repetitious one - you would have to drop / knock the metal quite a lot to induce work hardening by which time your crystal will be gone, your hands will have fallen off, your movement that originally had 273 components in it now has 546 and they are floating all about . . . .

I dont have any experience with Platinum so cant comment on that one. You will find that with most of the precious metals, they are alloyed with other metals because they are very soft / maleable materials and the addition of the other metals in the alloy serves to strengthen them, make them more ridgid, less susceptible to rust (in the case of stainless steel), easier to machine, change the colour etc but you really have to try to make a brittle material - tungsten carbide for example is very tough material, highly scratch and wear resistant, but highly susceptible shattering, fracturing much like ceramic - unfortunately no one has yet found the material that is strong (both in torsion and tension), wear resistant, light, impact resistant etc etc etc and there is always a trade off in materials science.

Cheers,

Ben

Greg
I agree with you absolutely – these complex and delicate timepieces cant be compared with a rugged watch for under 100 Dollars or so from the department store. Not each of those extreme complicated watches is for you and me but if you take one of those you should treat them adequate. How often did I wish to give that guy a childs scooter instead when he thrashes a cold engine again.
And we feel a great respect an admiration for these remarkable technical feats as a tourbie, repeater or whatever - incredible achievements of some ingenious men.

Cheers Lutz Hanisch

Hi Ben

Yes you hit the point – that was exactly what I was thinking of – that watch that fell down on a terracotta tile and becomes a victim of ist own hardness – incapable of buckling like a metal as steel – and so it has to break.
And it does not need a full fling – it just slips from a bathroom bench maybe a meter or so and it has happen.

Of course a timepiece with a grande complication, with a perpetual calendar or whatever would suffer inside (the movement) as well. But you just see the broken ceramic piece and forget that any other nonceramic timepiece would suffer comparable – may be not so obviously.

Thank you very much – now I see it very clear.

Cheers,

Lutz

Hi Thilo

Thank you for your very good statement. It is a good summary of all we discussed and a good completion too.

Due to its hardness ceramic breaks more easily but it is much more resitant for scratches – and of course this is a big advantage. I smashed not a single of my watches but scatched already some of them.

And last not least: In having every confidence in IWC and in $$$$$ I know that there will be always a solution of any problem.

Thank you and all the others – you helped me a great deal to make up my mind.

Lutz

Tilo - I really like this statement and the confidence in IWC, I agree :-)