British Military Issue IWC (one of the “Dirty Dozen”?)

Hello
everyone. I'm Colin from Scotland.

I recently came across an IWC watch I inherited from my grandfather. It's
been in a drawer for years (he died in 1973) and doesn't have the strap so
I've never worn it. Thought I'd do some research on it and found out the
W.W.W. mark on the back means it was one of the "Dirty Dozen" commissioned by
the British MOD in 1944/45.

I spoke to a very helpful dealer who told me a little about these watches but
he said the dial is not what would have been the original (white face and no
arrow mark). He thinks it is most likely it's been replaced at some point.
My grandfather saw service in WWW 1 but was in the Home Guard during WWW 2,
which is why (I assume) he had it. The odd thing (to me anyway) is that from
what I know, he would have been unlikely to have gone to the effort of
swapping out the dial for a non-military version, especially since a new IWC
dial would presumably have been costly? Unless he was concerned about the
radiation! Neither the dial or the hands are luminous.

The only identification on it is the serial number on the case, which is
probably the MOD serial number rather than IWC.

Is there anyway that IWC would be able to tell me more about the watch?

IWC could tell you more about this watch but among the members of this Forum,
real specialist collectors can tell you also what you want to know.

To tell you more, you have open the snap-on case. We have to see the inside of
the case back and the movement, predominantly for the stamped numbers.

All what can be said now is that the dial is definitively not a MoD dial. The
dials of all w.w.w. watches of the 12 brands were always black.

The number on the caseback is 'M' and this is the letter for the w.w.w. IWC.
The case has fixed lugs and also that is typical for the correct case.But all
of this is not sufficient to prove it is a genuine w.w.w. IWC.

Regards,

Adrian,

(alwatsiwc).

Hi Adrian, thank you. Sorry for the late reply but I had put the watch into a
local watchmaker (an elderly chap) who knew all about these and have got it
back today.

He told me that it is a genuine IWC replacement dial (with the slightly sunken
second hand dial) but the hands are the original and the luminescence had
deteriorated to the point it was no longer luminous. He loved the movement in
the watch. He replaced the glass and crown (and gave me the originals back)
and has it running perfectly. Got myself a strap for it and will now use it.

He snapped off the case so I could take a photo and also gave me the various
numbers:

C83 (bottom left corner)

1087599 (bottom right corner)

And there was another number he gave me 1136860 which I think was on the
inside of the
case.

Dear Colin,

the case No. and the movement No. belong to a IWC w.w.w. British Army
wristwatch.

However the dial is a later one. It should have a black one in a distinctive
(factory) design or a MOD replacement dial as well in black. The hands looks
good, but I what go for another, original crown.

Regards

Th. Koenig

Colin,

Thomas was just a few minutes before me. If you distract the number on the
outside of the back lid from the number stamped on the inside of the same lid
you have the number 1.118.980. This is exactly the number that makes your cal.
83 a real w.w.w.IWC.

Because you have a 4000 £ watch it is to be recommended that you search for a
black (service) IWC MoD dial as well as an extra loose inside lid of soft iron
to make the watch completely original.

Congratulations,

Adrian,

(alwaysiwc).

Correction Colin!

I was carried away by the IWC Mark 11 navigation watch!

The w.w.w. often called Mark X has notan extra soft iron inner case
lid.

Adrian,(alwaysiwc).

Colin,

One of these 3 dials plus an original crown would make your watch complete.
Rarely they may be offered on ebay..

Adrian

Thank you Thomas. I still have the original crown, the watch repairer said it
wasn't winding very well so he replaced it for functionality. If I can source
an original dial then I may well see if I can get the crown repaired to make
it complete.

Colin

"... If you distract the number on the
outside of the back lid from the number stamped on the inside of the same lid
you have the number 1.118.980. This is exactly the number that makes your cal.
83 a real w.w.w.IWC..."

Thanks Adrian! Where do you reference the 1,118,980 as being a genuine IWC?
I searched the IWC Service Price calculator with all these numbers and it says
not recognised?

I didn't think it was worth that much - I feel nervous wearing it now!

Thanks for the tip on eBay. I will keep my eyes open. Now I've seen some
example with the black original dial I want one!

Colin,

All the 12 w.w.w versions used a number that was the outcome of the civil
serial number minus the military serial number.For IWC it was 1.118,980.

For Timor it was 29.900, for Cyma 5,000.

That number gives the collector the possibility to distinguish between a
genuine original movement and case or a 'marriage'. Also MoD swapped parts
from one to the other watch and sometimes even cases were interchangeable. You
have to consider that w.w.w watches were not collectors items in those days
and thousands have been destroyed for scrap value.

For purist collectors it is essential to have the right original watch and the
market value for a marriage watch is only a fraction compared to the real
stuff.

Therefore it is worth to go for an original crown and dial, even if it takes
time.

Best regards,

Adrian.

Thanks Adrian. I'm now wondering what model the replacement dial came from.
It looks very like the Portugieser but the font of the numbers doesn't match
up, plus it seems the Portugiesers of that era were much larger.

I'm in no way an horogologist but I understand why it must be so interesting!

For the last few weeks I've been scouring the internet to try to find out what
model the "replacement" dial on my watch might have come from. It is most
similar to the Calibre 83 Inca or Incabloc. What was more interesting,
however, was some information on why the crown (and therefore I think the
dial) is very slightly off centre, something the watchrepairer mentioned to me
when he serviced it. He did say that the dial feet were perfect and fitted
exactly in the case.

If you look at the photograph in my original post in this thread you might
notice that the crown is very slightly past 90 degrees and the 12 is
correspondingly very slightly past 0 degrees. This fitted with a post I found
on the internet here:

www.crownsandchronos.com/product/wwii-military-inca-iwc- international-watch-co-cal-83-watch/

I have no idea whether this is true or not but the fact my watch dial is off
centre too suggests this isn't a one off.

Would this indicate that the dial is actually the original for this watch?

If the dial is original, then could the snap on back be WWW but not the watch
itself? As Adrian said the subtraction of the number on the outside of the
snap on back from the number inside the snap on back gives the magic 1.118.980
but presumably there is nothing in the watch itself that matches it to the
snap on back?

I would really appreciate anyone's view on this! Would IWC be able to shed
any light on the situation?

Colin

Dear Colin, you have a caseback which belongs to a w.w.w. and you have a
movement, that belongs to a w.w.w.

So what else than a w.w.w. with a replacement dial this should be: An original
dial with a replacement case back and a replacement case back, so in other
terms a collection of unrelated spare parts?

Regards

Th. Koenig

Colin,
I do not understand your last post and I do not know if you understood what
Thomas and I wrote.

To simplify :

The white dial is wrong and does not belong to any IWC w.w.w.It should be
removed.

If you mount the original crown and can find one ot the three models black
dial as shown in a previous post, your IWC w.w.w is completely original and
valuable.

IWC will answer you in the same way as we did.

Adrian.

Adrian, Thomas, thank you both for your reply. I understand now that the
movement is also confirmed www.

Best,

Colin