Help searching for a cal 853 or cal 89

Hi,

I am looking to buy a vintage cal 853 with black dial or a vintage cal 89 with black dial. I see a few here and there around the net, but am concerned since I have no idea if these are genuine or not. The problem with a few of them is that the dial just look too good. Did these wathches even come with a black dial originally?

Does this indicate that the dial has been refinished? I would obviously prefer if the dial and everything were original, but could live with an IWC factory restored dial.

Should these have the fish crown? Very few of them do.

Posting a few pictures of the watches I have been looking at. Any comments would be appreciated, and any tips in what to look out for when searching for a watch like this.

Edit: I have used the applet DateYourIWC and it seems at least that the movement numbers and case numbers check out and all seem to match within a year or so, so I guess that is a good thing. The main thing then is the dial and hands.

Examples of a couple of cal 853:

1. First watch
   
   
   

2. Second watch:
   
   
   

Also been looking at cal 89. Here the examples:

1. First watch in solid gold:
   
   
   

2. Second watch:
   
   
   

They all look like they have had their dials refinished.

Thank you for your reply.

Does it look like the dial has been refinished by IWC or by some third party? Or is that impossible to tell?

Do the hands look ok?

The hands look OK.

Impossible to say who refinished the dials. In the case of the gold Cal 89, definitely not IWC. Should not have a black dial!

Thanks again! If one sends a watch to IWC for restoration that has the correct case and movement, but a refinished dial or a flat at wrong dial (as in the gold cal 89). Will they restore it back to original or will they just return it as a franken, and not want anything to do with it?

Anyone have any experience with this?