• Apprentice
    4 Jun 2023, 4:52 p.m.





    I recently bought this at an antique fair, believing it to be a vintage Ingenieur. When I got home I did some research and opened the case to have a look at the Calibre. As you can see from the pictures it has a Calibre 8521, which my research suggested the watch dated to 1955. However yesterday a friend came over who knows a lot more about vintage watches than I do, and suggested that it may unfortunately be a Frankenstein. His reasoning was that there is no "Swiss" wording on the dial, no radium dots on the dial and that the design of the dial, does not match up to the old catalog images of Ingenieur with the Cal. 8521. I have spent quite some time today trying to see if I could find a similar model, but have come up with nothing. So I am now fearing that he might be right, and that this is a copy. So I am reaching out to all you vintage IWC collectors and enthusiasts, to pass judgement. Any help would be amazing. Thank you in advance 🙏

  • Master
    4 Jun 2023, 11:03 p.m.

    Congrats 🍾 on a nice vintage IWC Ingenieur. It looks okay to me but I'm not a vintage expert. Not sure if there should be a 2nd caseback for the magnetic shield.
    Maybe the vintage experts can help here. I only have 'Fake' Inges with crystal backs.

  • Apprentice
    5 Jun 2023, 12:42 a.m.

    Hi 👋

    Thanks for taking the time to respond 👍

    It does have a second case back, which I didn't expect when I opened it. I can add a photo if it would make a difference.


    T 🙏

  • Connoisseur
    5 Jun 2023, 12:35 p.m.

    If you haven't already search for the "Ingenieur Dial Variations" article on Frizzellweb.com I suggest you do. There are a couple of documents. I don't know how complete they are, but there are a lot of dial pics.

    Hard to tell from the pics, but the date window looks like it might be a tad misaligned, which might (and only might) indicate it's not an original Ing. dial. - but it's more likely to be the way it was set up the last time it was serviced. Everything else looks good to me.

    Bear in mind also that some of these watches have been around for almost 70 years and it's their history that makes them interesting/unique. I'm sure that there are a lot of 666s out there that are a mix of genuine case, movement and dial - just not all from the same original watch!. I've got 666 853 from 1961 which has got a dial which I couldn't find a pic of and I suspect is either either a Franken or a re-dial because the "Swiss" is very low on the dial and almost under the rehaut. I don't care - the beating heart is one of the best movements ever made, runs +2 secs per day consistently, the case and movement were made in the year I was born and I think it looks great.

  • Insider
    5 Jun 2023, 4:10 p.m.

    Hi Organics,

    your watch looks authentic from my point of view. However the dial is likely to be redone. The International Watch imprint is positioned to low and the Ingenieur Logo sits a little to high. I have added a picture of a watch with the same dial to this post (taken from frizzellweb). There should be luminous dots near the hour markers , and the missing swiss is another sign of a repainted dial. Luminous Hands should normaly come together with lume dots on the dial.

    In any case a repainted dial on a watch from the mid fifties, does not qualify a watch as "Frankenwatch".

    Anything else on the watch looks good. The Movement dates to 1954, and the case number dates to 1956.



  • Apprentice
    5 Jun 2023, 7:31 p.m.

    Thank you so much for responding. I really know very little about watches, and have always been warned about buying/getting involved with vintage watches. Thank you so much for the link. I never knew that site existed. I've read in the next reply (which I'll respond too next), that the dial is there, although mine has been refinished. I can live with that. I was just super concerned it was a copy. Phew 😥. Once again thank you

  • Apprentice
    5 Jun 2023, 7:42 p.m.

    Hi 👋

    Like the other two responses, thank you so much for taking the time to do so.

    Reading your response put my mind at rest. I know it's not what collectors/purists would be looking for, but I'm delighted to know it's not a fake. I have two watches, both vintage. This, and a 1940's Eterna. Both of which are more than likely going to be left to my boys. Still quite a few years until they get them, but I'm sure they'll be happy on their 18th.

    Thank you again 🙏🙏🙏

  • Apprentice
    9 Jun 2023, 10:18 a.m.

    In my opinion, your wristwatch appears genuine, but upon closer inspection, it seems that the dial has been altered. The placement of the International Watch imprint is slightly too low, and the Ingenieur Logo is positioned a bit too high. To illustrate this point, I have attached an image of a watch with a similar dial, sourced from frizzellweb. A genuine watch should have luminous dots near the hour markers, which are missing in your timepiece. Additionally, the absence of the word "Swiss" is another indication that the dial may have been repainted. Normally, luminous hands should be accompanied by lume dots on the dial.

  • Apprentice
    9 Jun 2023, 8:13 p.m.

    Thank you for your response. I had a similar suggestion in an earlier reply. I can settle with a refinished dial, although it's not perfect. Just glad it's not a copy. Phew 😰. Thanks again 🙏